OT: Anybody hear about Pontiac? Options

[Gene]

the UAW is what is causing GM to go bankrupt. Gm should have been allowed from the beginning to file chapter 11, get rid union and lower workforce expenditures and reorganize. Buck hit the nail on the head though, this is payback for the UAW's support of the democratic party all these years. If you think GM went in the toilet with the current management, UAW leadership is going to be much worse.

[charliew]

Amen brother ben er buck. I got laidoff from a copier-camera co. at 57 after moving to there from the largest computer co. for more money 11 years earlier. I got almost nothing 48k for 23 years. No union, I always thought I was good enough and I would always have a good job. I didn't realize you just need a body to run service calls for this new co.. When we went there we found out the original guys made way less than us and hated us for it. I got a 10% bonus quarterly for I think 4 years over my regular pay. My old co. had me at their top pay for the last 3 years I was there. I was the first pc trained rep in TX. It was a baby large wordprocessor. They always needed more copier guys. Copiers suck. Also no union. The new co. started making me cover calls 100 miles or more away and my local customers some of who were my neighbors would have to wait till the next day for service. We originally at my old co. gave 4 hour response. The new co. sold refurbed machines that were basically dusted off painted 15 year old technology machines. They tried to steal another copier co.'s service by hiring reps that stole the maintenance manuals and started training our reps to service their machines. It was a flop the only machines the other co. lost were the ones ready to go off lease and needing complete overhauls.

Southwest Airlines has the only good management at a us company I know of.

[ellisor3]

The UAW is now a competitor of Ford.

I could be wrong here- and probably am- but I thought the UAW worked for all the major vehicle manufacturers... or does each manufacturer have it's own pet name for their given union?

The UAW does supply the workforce for all three manufacturers, but now they will have a vested interest, along with the Federal Government (ie your tax dollars) in the success of one car company, GM (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) . They are the majority ownership in GM. This is a huge conflict of interest on the part of the UAW and the government. Does anyone think the UAW will negotiate fairly with Ford from here out?

[TJB/914]

My wife has a 2004 suburban and it is a great vehicle. I'd buy another GM car without hesitation UNTIL the uaw and great glorious leader take over. Never will I buy a car that has been made from a company that has the uaw as the owner. All that money that was poured down the black hole of GM recently was for one purpose: to payback the uaw and allow that corrupt system to thrive. Who needs capitalism anymore? We got great and glorious leader to handle all our problems. As long as we hand him all our freedom and money.
I have spoken,
Buck

Buck,

I agree with you, the U.A.W. and Ron Gittlefinger will be running G.M & Chrysler. They are replacing the current board of directors with U.A.W. hacks and Govt. yes people. Everyone I know in automotive mgt. will bail out as soon as they can. Automotive talent who design & run the company are leaving as fast as they can leaving hacks to design your electric automobile to meet Govt. social engineering. What a sad development to our proud American car industry. I will never buy a U.A.W. Gettlefinger auto!!!! I will never drive an electric car. I will go down fighting before I bow to the man. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) I love my country & freedom!!!

BTW: My industry is the Power & Utility industry. I will tell you later how the Govt.is doing to double your utility bills within a few years. They know the only way to increase taxes is through govt. utility "green renewable energy" bull crap to fund their $$ appetite. The Govt. is now in your electric outlets & will raise your electric bill 100% in a few short years. Ask me how I know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Tom

[ArtechnikA]

...The Govt. is now in your electric outlets & will raise your electric bill 100% in a few short years.

I've beenthinking about getting off the grid for many years - first in San Diego, with (some of) the highest electric rates in the country (and 'clean affordable electric heat...') then in Lost Angeles, where the city added a 10% tax on top of your utility cost, then in NW Nevada, with 300+ sunny days a year.

Here in PA i have not as many sunny days - but I have an acre of yard with southern exposure and about 1500 square feet of southern-exposure rooftop. Might just be time to think about pulling the plug again...

[ConeDodger]

Huh... I thought Pontiac stopped making cars in the 1970's. At least for me they did.

[rcarpen22]

To all those concerned about Government involvement;* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Since 1980 'You've' been the 'Government' and done just about anything and everything (legal and otherwise)to remove any regulations, oversight and boundries, placed on Industry, and with astounding success. Now we're all paying the cost for it . I don't expect to hear anyone admit to self-serving gullibility, and self-delusion, much less, outright greed and deception. But now that they've f*#*ked everything up, I would hope they had at least enough shame to shut the f#*k up, and give others a fair chance to try and fix it.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)

If this is an assertion that any kind of deregulation under republican administrations is responsible for the plight of the auto industry, I would love to hear that expounded upon. I'm not at all trying to be contentious, but I just don't think that argument can be made very well. For the banking industry maybe, but I would suggest that most people here are referring to the UAW being complicit in GM's demise by making them uncompetitive. UAW interest in American carmakers will do nothing but ensure that US companies are never competitive again. Also, while previous administrations may have allowed a little too much deregulation in certain areas, people still have every right to disagree with the path that this administration is taking, which is to declare that big government is the answer to everything rather than simply reinstating or strengthening regulation in targeted areas to fix the problems. It's a power grab. I too am sorry to see Pontiac die since they make the only cool cars that GM offers. Oh well.

[turboman808]

I am sad to see the Solstice and G8 die. Signs of hope and promise that didn't sell enough to pay the bills.

(IMG:http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r283/turboman808/DSC00863.jpg)
I really like my solstice by the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

From what I have read in the past they were building the solstice at a loss. Seems at the time they were more interested in promoting the ecotec motor. Bob Lutz said at one point they lost 10k on each one they built.

[Cupomeat]

Do remember that GM sells around 10x the number of Buicks in China as they do in the US.
Buick is a surprising profit area in asian markets so GM will either hold onto Buick or sell it off to the Chinese capital company SAIC (not the US Contractor SAIC) for much needed cash...

Now, the Kappa platform solstice/Sky is a true loss, but GM was going to retire the current version in 2011 anyway. Nice example of what GM can build.

I am trying to stay non-polical, but was thinking of re-reading 'Atlas Shrugged' to see the similarities therin.

[Derek Seymour]

I generally don't give a damn about "news." Usually in the Des Moines area a "headlining story" on the news is about how the county keeps bitching about wanting a new courthouse or- and I'm not bullshitting here- the new set up and design of the Channel 8 studios. They actually opened a program with the new design of their studio as the #1 item on the list. This is news? No, it doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I don't bother watching the news except for the weather, and even then they're wrong 7 out of 7 days of the week.

I have better things to spend my money and time on then a newspaper- and I have no interest in actually pursuing information about current affairs on the net- so the source for most of my news is whatever I hear on the morning radio talk show- only made tolerable by the personalities announcing it.

Yeah, that's right- f*ck Larry King too- f*ck him right in the ear!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

the thing with the set design put me on the floor.. and I can't stop laughing... Jebus!

[Zimms]

I really like my solstice by the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

From what I have read in the past they were building the solstice at a loss. Seems at the time they were more interested in promoting the ecotec motor. Bob Lutz said at one point they lost 10k on each one they built.

My wife and I have been kicking around the idea of getting one for a year. The lack of space is a killer. I love the turbo Ecotec, though. Maybe the new targa?!

Great looking car. Looks like you updated the wheels.

[rhodyguy]

GTO=Holden. i enjoy noting all of the european and asian produced cars in your signatures. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) yeah, the UAW killed the big 3. right... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Scott S]

I am going to start collecting Grand-Am's

On another note, do you guys think the Dodge truck guys will like the new ad compaigns?

"Yeah, it's got a Fiat"

[Derek Seymour]

To all those concerned about Government involvement;* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

Since 1980 'You've' been the 'Government' and done just about anything and everything (legal and otherwise)to remove any regulations, oversight and boundries, placed on Industry, and with astounding success. Now we're all paying the cost for it . I don't expect to hear anyone admit to self-serving gullibility, and self-delusion, much less, outright greed and deception. But now that they've f*#*ked everything up, I would hope they had at least enough shame to shut the f#*k up, and give others a fair chance to try and fix it.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/finger.gif)

If this is an assertion that any kind of deregulation under republican administrations is responsible for the plight of the auto industry, I would love to hear that expounded upon. I'm not at all trying to be contentious, but I just don't think that argument can be made very well. For the banking industry maybe, but I would suggest that most people here are referring to the UAW being complicit in GM's demise by making them uncompetitive. UAW interest in American carmakers will do nothing but ensure that US companies are never competitive again. Also, while previous administrations may have allowed a little too much deregulation in certain areas, people still have every right to disagree with the path that this administration is taking, which is to declare that big government is the answer to everything rather than simply reinstating or strengthening regulation in targeted areas to fix the problems. It's a power grab. I too am sorry to see Pontiac die since they make the only cool cars that GM offers. Oh well.

I'm your huckleberry...

It is indicative of the b.s. ideology that those administrations promoted to the American people. Buy Buy Buy, Use it up in 2-3 years throw it in a land fill and Buy Buy Buy!!!! Unsustainable growth leading to an inflated economy built on projections of sales and profit that didn't exist. It goes back to the conservative trickle down models that were devised in the 40' and 50's when a bunch of hacks read John Maynard Keynes and decided that supply side economics is what we should base our economy on.
Love him or hate him Carter saw the writing on the wall and wanted to bailout/regulate the auto industry. The Carter administration actually did what we are doing today but with Conrail, turning it into a very profitable company that was considered a prized asset by the mid 80's. However in 1980 we got Ronald "Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem," Reagan and all that was filed in the round bin and we went back to supply side economics. However this time it was called Trickle Down Economics. But we all know what trickles down right.... yep..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) right on the face of the middle and working class. Thanks guys way to crap on the people that built this country.

And that's enough from me because this is a fun site for entertainment... not politics.. and I don't want to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) on the playground (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[charliew]

Talk is just that. My experience was that Jimmy Carter's time was the worst time in my life till now. I was working and had a good job and the co. need to give me a 20% raise to keep up with inflation and of course that didn't happen. What happened to people actually remembering past history instead of rewriting it?

How do people get through higher education without really understanding economics and past history?

The soltice is neat. I have v6 fieros. V8 Archie also makes v8 conversions for the soltice. He made the first ones for the fiero and the soltice.

[dbgriffith75]

I'm your huckleberry...

It is indicative of the b.s. ideology that those administrations promoted to the American people. Buy Buy Buy, Use it up in 2-3 years throw it in a land fill and Buy Buy Buy!!!! Unsustainable growth leading to an inflated economy built on projections of sales and profit that didn't exist. It goes back to the conservative trickle down models that were devised in the 40' and 50's when a bunch of hacks read John Maynard Keynes and decided that supply side economics is what we should base our economy on.
Love him or hate him Carter saw the writing on the wall and wanted to bailout/regulate the auto industry. The Carter administration actually did what we are doing today but with Conrail, turning it into a very profitable company that was considered a prized asset by the mid 80's. However in 1980 we got Ronald "Government is not the solution to our problems, government is the problem," Reagan and all that was filed in the round bin and we went back to supply side economics. However this time it was called Trickle Down Economics. But we all know what trickles down right.... yep..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) right on the face of the middle and working class. Thanks guys way to crap on the people that built this country.

And that's enough from me because this is a fun site for entertainment... not politics.. and I don't want to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) on the playground (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I agree with what you're saying here. I'm not [no offense] old enough to remember the Carter administration- namely because I wasn't born yet-, but I never fully understood how car manufacturers managed to stay in business when they were producing waaaaay more cars than they were selling. It's not like they're making bread and have a guaranteed sales clientele.

A big name dealer around here is Karl Chevrolet in Ankeny- this place has at least 20 acres full of brand new Chevy's; and I just don't get how they can stay in business, because while they may do better than most dealers around here, it's not like they've got somebody buying a new car every single day. If you ask my dad he'll tell you that it's because Karl himself has ties to the mob, but I doubt if even the mob can finance this place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

You know it really does bother me that a lot of people are going to [or already have] lose their jobs thru this ordeal, and that it's come down to discontinuing brands of cars to keep the industry going. But all in all the auto industry is responsible for its own demise. They kept approving people who aren't financially responsible to buy cars on their credit, and now they're up shit creek without a paddle because of it. I remember hearing on the radio about two months ago that car loans 30+ days past due make up for something like 7 billion dollars of our debt. What were they really planning to do with that bailout money they've been begging for? Straighten themselves out financially, or scream out to the American public "HEY! We've got money now! Go to your local dealer for pre-approval today!"

Personally I think it's the latter. But that's just me.

[Gint]

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