Do you know the CA law on swapping motors?, smog Options

[computers4kids]

If you do a conversion to a 76 car in CA, which requires smog checks do you know how the law works in regards to smog? As I recall there's some fine print if the motor is newer or older than than car it's going in (76)?? I still need to talk to the DMV for their version, but I always like to know the answers to my questions before I ask them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)
Thanks

[PRS914-6]

To the best of my knowledge you have to comply with whatever smog was required for the actual engine in your car. If you backdate you have to comply with the year of the car and if you install a newer one you comply with the newer regulations. In other words the emissions can never get worse than the original engine.

[Wes V]

The engine has to be the same year or newer.

It has to be what carb considers a "car" engine, not "truck" engine! (a Cayanne engine wouldn't be allowed)

All equipment that is smog related to the engine has to be present and working.

Any aftermarket items on the engine must have a CARB EO number on it and be for the installed engine.

So;

If you swapped in a Chevy V8 that had a smog pump and air injectors, they you would have to install them.

If you swap in an engine that came with fuel injection, then the complete EFI system has to be installed. You can NOT modify the computer in any way! (this is a major problem with some late motor swaps)


The best place to get information on a specific swap is to talk to the State Referee that will be certifying your installation. You can get the phone number to contact the central office at any smog check station. Call them and ask for the address for the one near you. (if they will not give out the address without setting up an appointment, go to Hondatech.com and post up the question about location there)

Go by the Referee and wait until he has time to talk to you. Then just ask your questions. Don't waste his time. Have specifics as to what you want to do. They are pretty helpful, but don't have a lot of spare time.


I've been through the process when I did an engine swap in a Honda I had.

Wes

[Cap'n Krusty]

Close. I believe the rule is the emissions equipment goes with the engine or the car, whichever is newer. In effect, that basically prevents you from using an engine earlier than the car. The Cap'n, BTDT

[Wes V]

Close. I believe the rule is the emissions equipment goes with the engine or the car, whichever is newer. In effect, that basically prevents you from using an engine earlier than the car. The Cap'n, BTDT

Cap;

I don't agree at all!

However, as I said in my post; the Referee is the final judge. Ask there before spending money based on what somebody said on the net. (man, I'd love to put a 1969 DZ block Z28 302 in a 914)

Wes

[LvSteveH]

To make things even more fun, interpreting emissions laws is somewhat like the bible. It's just vague enough that two people can read the same thing and get very different meanings.

For instance, some will tell you that the transmission and fuel tank are part of the emissions system. Therefore, if you have an engine that came with an automatic, then the converted car needs to have one too. Then, there's the fuel tank. It's certainly part of the emissions system, so you better figure out how to fit that in your car as well.

Not everyone is like that. If you get a tough referee, the best bet is to find another one.

Oh, and some states won't allow you to change gear ratios or tire size from the donor vehicle. The convoluted logic being that you would alter the driving dynamics and use more fuel, etc.

[EdwardBlume]

Close. I believe the rule is the emissions equipment goes with the engine or the car, whichever is newer. In effect, that basically prevents you from using an engine earlier than the car. The Cap'n, BTDT

This IS true if you do it the right way AND the inspection people know / care. Reasonable (and sometimes unreasonable) things get by. Also, I believe once a year 500 exemptions are passed out in Sac for non-passing unoriginal cars (a friend of mine had a Cobra kit car exempted) but bring your sleeping bag.

Lastly, I think what the '76 owner wants to do is bypass smog and enjoy the car. '76 cars currently require CA smog. There's no way around it. The best you can do is fix the pump, give it a shot, and work within the process. Talk with Rich at HPH too. He may have some advice.

[Wes V]

Here is a link to the California Air Research Board web site.

CARB website

About 2/3 down you will find the following section;




Engine Changes

Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.

After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine.


Wes

[Wes V]

Also, I believe once a year 500 exemptions are passed out in Sac for non-passing unoriginal cars (a friend of mine had a Cobra kit car exempted) but bring your sleeping bag.

This is true, however it only applys to "replica" kit cars. A Beck 550 would be valid, as would a Lotus 7 kit car.

Wes

[Wes V]

For instance, some will tell you that the transmission and fuel tank are part of the emissions system. Therefore, if you have an engine that came with an automatic, then the converted car needs to have one too.

Years ago I got bit by this one.

I had a 69 Camaro and put a manual transmission in it. For some reason, during that year, the automatic cars didn't have an air pump system. The cars that came with a four speed did have the pump.

The shop doing my smog check wanted me to put in the smog pump system due to the fact it had a manual transmission in it at the time of the check.

I was able to talk them out of it.





Another "fun fact" dealing with engine swap limitations is that you have to mount the engine in the same orientation as original. In other words, if it was originally mounted transversly (side to side) then you couldn't mount it longtudinally.

As an example; the VW VR6 engine only came from the factory mounted transversly, You couldn't legally bolt it up to a 901 transmission.

Wes

[Cap'n Krusty]

For instance, some will tell you that the transmission and fuel tank are part of the emissions system. Therefore, if you have an engine that came with an automatic, then the converted car needs to have one too.

Years ago I got bit by this one.

I had a 69 Camaro and put a manual transmission in it. For some reason, during that year, the automatic cars didn't have an air pump system. The cars that came with a four speed did have the pump.

The shop doing my smog check wanted me to put in the smog pump system due to the fact it had a manual transmission in it at the time of the check.

I was able to talk them out of it.

OOPS! I yield to your knowledge and your research! The law's been changed since I last did a swap. My bad. Well, not really, the legislature's bad ................

The Cap'n




Another "fun fact" dealing with engine swap limitations is that you have to mount the engine in the same orientation as original. In other words, if it was originally mounted transversly (side to side) then you couldn't mount it longtudinally.

As an example; the VW VR6 engine only came from the factory mounted transversly, You couldn't legally bolt it up to a 901 transmission.

Wes

[Wes V]

Cap;

Thanks for the yield!

Wes

[underthetire]

A smog inspection station tried to make my dad drill holes in his aluminum thunderbird valve covers on his 57. The car came from the factory with the engine dress up kit and a chrome breather. He went down the road to the next guy, and he passed it no problem. Told my dad no way he would have anyone drill 500.00 valve covers. BTW, thats back when you had to get one smog check on any car you purchased, no matter what year.

[andys]

Because I'm doing an LS1 swap, I frequent the LS1TECH forums where there's a section dedicated to conversions. These guys are are very knowlegeable when it comes to stuff like this and generally align themselves with what Wes writes. In the case of an LS1 swapped into a late car, basically everything's got to be hooked up just like the donor car including fuel tank evap, charcoal cannister, DBW if so equipped, AT (auto trans) PCM cannot be re-programmed to a MT, and I'm quite sure if the exhaust system is a single outlet, then so too must be the swap. Also as Wes stresses, the referee is your best friend; an aquaintence did a Chevy LT1/944 swap that required all the emissions goodies and mentioned the same thing. He ended up being certified, but it took three separate trips before everything was right. His comment was: make it look as stock as possible otherwise it brings things into question.

Andys

[Bruce Hinds]

What happened to the 30 year old exemption?

We moved to So. Cal from colo and found the newer car vs. newer engine routine, I brought in a '75 with a '69 motor.... but the car was only 28 years old at the time so I kept it registered in Colo. That can get sticky if you get pulled over, luckly we still had an address in Colo!
They told me though that once it was 30 years old It wouldn't matter- but we moved before then.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Cap;

Thanks for the yield!

Wes

Hey! No problem. If I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it. I'm not overcome with the need to be right, no matter what ............... And thanks again for the research!

The Cap'n

[Wes V]

What happened to the 30 year old exemption?

It's history. (I'm old enough to remember it)

Currently, here in California, a car that is a 1975 (and that even varies some) isn't required to go in for a smog check. A 1976 would have to go in every other year.

Now here is the rub; That doesn't mean that you can remove any smog equipment on pre 76 cars!! It just means that the State isn't going to check.

However, let's say that you have a 73 that is totally stock, but you put Webers on it. A pissed off cop could tag the car as modified and as such you would have to go to the Referee to have it checked.

That's pretty much a worst case thing, but could happen. To pretend it can't is just sticking your head in the sand.


(Ya, aspects of California really suck)

Wes

[ericread]

BTW: The California "30 Year Exemption" was modified a few years ago to the 1975 and earlier year exemption. 1976 and newer model years are provided no exemption, regardless if they're 30 years old or older.

Eric Read

[Derek Seymour]

What happened to the 30 year old exemption?

We moved to So. Cal from colo and found the newer car vs. newer engine routine, I brought in a '75 with a '69 motor.... but the car was only 28 years old at the time so I kept it registered in Colo. That can get sticky if you get pulled over, luckly we still had an address in Colo!
They told me though that once it was 30 years old It wouldn't matter- but we moved before then.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...641&hl=smog

I hoping that maybe... just maybe with Jay Leno no longer doing the Tonight Show he will get bored and decide that he wants to tackle this at a higher level, it was Leno who made a public uproar about this last time. It's going to take someone like that with big $$$ and a high profile to get the public to realize that the number of cars on the road 30 years and older is so small that that they have little effect on the environment. Also that any 30+ year old cars that are streetable are owned by collectors who keep them fine tuned and not in a "gross polluting" state of disrepair which are the cars the current laws are going after.

[ericread]

Also that any 30+ year old cars that are streetable are owned by collectors who keep them fine tuned and not in a "gross polluting" state of disrepair which are the cars the current laws are going after.

Sorry to bring up a point of contention, but I see a number of 30+ year old cars on the I-5 every day that are on their last legs. Some are "smokers" and some just look like they're about to fall apart. While the folks on this board take extreme pains to ensure our '75 and older teeners are in top condition, this is not always true for all older cars.

Eric Read