Do you know the CA law on swapping motors?, smog Options

[Derek Seymour]

Sorry to bring up a point of contention, but I see a number of 30+ year old cars on the I-5 every day that are on their last legs. Some are "smokers" and some just look like they're about to fall apart. While the folks on this board take extreme pains to ensure our '75 and older teeners are in top condition, this is not always true for all older cars.

Eric Read

I don't doubt that at all... in fact the day I drove to the SMOG facility I was in my driveway doing last minute fine tuning and a late 60's Chevy truck drove by leaving a huge black oil cloud in its wake.
However my guess.. and I stress the word guess.. is that if you rounded up all of those vehicles and compared the pollution output to all the Jane Soccer Moms in their Hummer H2's on an equal drive time basis... let's say a 45 minute commute... the sheer number of Soccer Mom's would make the old crusty cars polution levels look prety small.
Then take into account the number of miles one of those crusty vehicles could ACTUALLY drive. Also as you mentioned those cars are on their last leg and if their owners aren't the wrenching type then they will be off the road permanently soon.

Take a look at who was behind Sally Lieber's bill, and who helped provide the statistics, oil companies and car manufacturers, and as we all know those companies have one motivation... profit. Removing old cars means people have to buy new ones, and in 2002 what were most people buying??? Gas guzzling SUV's.
2002 was also the same year that Senators backed a bill trying to exempt pick-up trucks from fuel efficincy standards citing that they are primarily work vehicles even though 70 percent of pickups are used for personal transportation, 8.3 percent are used for construction and 4.6 percent are used in agriculture.

Lieber and her staff had good intentions and I don't doubt that many of the air quality standards that were raised with her bill have helped our environment. But as fas as the 30 year SMOG exemption goes... I have my doubts.

[EdwardBlume]

Also that any 30+ year old cars that are streetable are owned by collectors who keep them fine tuned and not in a "gross polluting" state of disrepair which are the cars the current laws are going after.

Sorry to bring up a point of contention, but I see a number of 30+ year old cars on the I-5 every day that are on their last legs. Some are "smokers" and some just look like they're about to fall apart. While the folks on this board take extreme pains to ensure our '75 and older teeners are in top condition, this is not always true for all older cars.

Eric Read

Uh, OK. How's you're buddy Al Gore doing? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[TonyAKAVW]

There was a discussion on another email list that I'm part of that just recently (within the last few weeks possbily) things have gotten easier. While you still have to abide by the laws, the inspection is either not part of the deal any more or it has gotten easier. Apparently there is an 'interview' now where they ask you about the conversion. Unfortunately I don't have any more information than that, but there must be a thread on a forum somewhere talking about it.

-Tony

[Wes V]

There was a discussion on another email list that I'm part of that just recently (within the last few weeks possbily) things have gotten easier. While you still have to abide by the laws, the inspection is either not part of the deal any more or it has gotten easier. Apparently there is an 'interview' now where they ask you about the conversion. Unfortunately I don't have any more information than that, but there must be a thread on a forum somewhere talking about it.

-Tony

The wording "interview" is interesting.

My feeling is that when you take a car into the Referee, they are sizing up you, as much as the car. I'm an old guy and when I took in the Honda (Acura drivetrain swap) I think the Referee felt I was somebody that would do it correct and not try to sneak stuff by him.

I know a lot of younger guys that are into Honda swaps and I'd bet that they don't get treated as well as I was.

He didn't get as much into my car as I know others have.



As for "old car smog requirements", here is my two cents.

Not all old cars are taken care of. Some are pieces of junk that are all the person can afford.

But it's all percentages. Is it really worth chasing after what is a small percentage of the total amount of cars out there.

I do feel that if a cop sees any car polluting, he should write it up and it should be required to be fixed or taken off the road.

Wes

[Chris Hamilton]

Honestly I don't think the year of the car should even come into it. I think all cars should be required to pass smog unless the owner pays an additional fee each year to register it. An extra $500 fee every two years instead of smog inspections would allow enthusiasts with late models to enjoy them, and would get people with old beaters to either cough up the dough ( which they won't ) or clean up their act.

It would be just that simple. Comply with emissions standards or pay up. None of this dancing with the inspectors crap on nice cars.

[EdwardBlume]

Honestly I don't think the year of the car should even come into it. I think all cars should be required to pass smog unless the owner pays an additional fee each year to register it. An extra $500 fee every two years instead of smog inspections would allow enthusiasts with late models to enjoy them, and would get people with old beaters to either cough up the dough ( which they won't ) or clean up their act.

It would be just that simple. Comply with emissions standards or pay up. None of this dancing with the inspectors crap on nice cars.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Standards change over time.... in our case, they get tougher. When I had to get my '74 smogged, no one would touch it.

Additionally, older cars pollute more mainly through oil consumption. Add the incentive of paying for smog tests, and the state and local benefits (taxes) of getting people to buy new / used cars more frequently, and BINGO, you have the legislation we have. You can choose for yourself whether it has more to do with clean air or state and local economic needs.

I personally believe there's no free rides in life either, but this is America where you can work hard for everyone else or slide....

[orange914]

Close. I believe the rule is the emissions equipment goes with the engine or the car, whichever is newer. In effect, that basically prevents you from using an engine earlier than the car. The Cap'n, BTDT

Cap;

I don't agree at all!

However, as I said in my post; the Referee is the final judge. Ask there before spending money based on what somebody said on the net. (man, I'd love to put a 1969 DZ block Z28 302 in a 914)

Wes

ref's are human. years back i had a 67 mustang swap aproved, turns out my wife had to take it in. she was frazzled and i think i got away with murder. 400M, (i bought the car this way) with a edlebrock and mech. choke holley (not hooked up), open p.c.v. system, no smog pump or gulp valve AND out of a truck. never the less i got a door tag.

rule #1... send the car in with a young dazed female driver
#2... kiss arss

mike

[racerx9146]

Engine swaps in Cali are not easy. Cheaper to get a pre 74 car.

I put a 92 Subaru SVX EG33 in my 86 Vanagon Pickup.

When I first showed at the reg station one of the techs walked right up to me and said no way, incorrect drivetrain configuration. Engine in rear vs Front of original car. I jokingly said I could drive in in reverse gear. He was not amused and fortunately I got another tech. Initially they failed me. After 2 hours of climbing all over it and making me explain a bunch of stuff it came down to my check engine light was not labelled and I had a "incorrect exhaust configuration". Header and single cat vs original exhaust manifold and 3 cats. So I took my lumps, went home and hung the original exhaust under the truck, huge mess. Got out my label maker for the CEL and passed the 2nd time.

They check everything, evap purge, computer codes, stored and current, gas tank vapor leaks, egr functioning, you name it.

Its easier if you have a OBD 1 engine because they dont have the readers to check if the donor motor came from a automatic or if its a cali motor. If you use a OBD II motor they have the reader and may check.

The vanagon guys go though this all the time and the ref station is a crap shoot. Some are easy and some are tough but you better be in the ball part as far as the rules or its a no go.

In retrospect I would not do it again.

Daron

[strawman]

Engine swaps in Cali are not easy. Cheaper to get a pre 74 car.

I put a 92 Subaru SVX EG33 in my 86 Vanagon Pickup.

I put an EJ22 into a Vanagon Westy Syncro, but the Sacramento referee station failed me for using a non-CARB certified SmallCar header. I had to do the same thing you did by cobbling together a Suby exhaust abomination, and labeling the check engine light I mounted on the steering column. It passed about a month later.

They wouldn't give me the opportunity to describe the conversion during the initial inspection, and they completely ignored me when I pointed out that the Suby engine was MUCH cleaner than the VW Wasserboxer it replaced. What a crusty old fart the first guy was; the younger guy was much more pleasant... but I think he lusted after the relatively rare Westy Syncro.

Glad my Suby-powered 914 project won't have to pass smog to get registered, but it technically could be required to pass if a tightwad law enforcement officer sees fit to give me grief...

Geoff

[Porcharu]

There was a discussion on another email list that I'm part of that just recently (within the last few weeks possbily) things have gotten easier. While you still have to abide by the laws, the inspection is either not part of the deal any more or it has gotten easier. Apparently there is an 'interview' now where they ask you about the conversion. Unfortunately I don't have any more information than that, but there must be a thread on a forum somewhere talking about it.

-Tony

The wording "interview" is interesting.

My feeling is that when you take a car into the Referee, they are sizing up you, as much as the car. I'm an old guy and when I took in the Honda (Acura drivetrain swap) I think the Referee felt I was somebody that would do it correct and not try to sneak stuff by him.

I know a lot of younger guys that are into Honda swaps and I'd bet that they don't get treated as well as I was.

He didn't get as much into my car as I know others have.



As for "old car smog requirements", here is my two cents.

Not all old cars are taken care of. Some are pieces of junk that are all the person can afford.

But it's all percentages. Is it really worth chasing after what is a small percentage of the total amount of cars out there.

I do feel that if a cop sees any car polluting, he should write it up and it should be required to be fixed or taken off the road.

Wes

That's funny I did a Honda swap in about 90-91. I took an 84 civic and swapped in an 86' Acura integra engine and trans (that wiring harness was a HUGE job - carb to FI.) Everything was as stock and it looked totally stock. The referee accused me of cheating and said I was justed BSing him and trying to get away with having no air pump (the Acura didn't have one the honda did) he also said that engine is not an Acura engine - it says HONDA on the valve cover! After getting proof (pictures of Integra engines) he finally said it was OK and that the swap was very well done. That was a very fun car, I had to trim the speedo needle because it kept hitting the stop! Too bad I fell asleep and killed a tree and the car one night (damn near me to.)