 something other than........... |
|
|
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
|
  |
| SLITS |
 Jul 9 2009, 08:57 PM
Post
#41
|
|
"This Utah shit is HARSH!"  Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None   |
Damn! I was ready to get into a fist fight. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
|
   |
 
|
| jhadler |
Jul 10 2009, 01:18 AM
Post
#42
|
|
Long term tinkerer... Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 |
QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 9 2009, 06:38 PM)  I vote for Josh as our new United Nations representative. rich Wow... Thanks... Uh... waitaminute... should I be insulted??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Sorry, I'm already a federal employee. Thanks, but I'm good... -Josh2 |
|
|
|
| zymurgist |
Jul 10 2009, 07:34 AM
Post
#43
|
|
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(karmanbuilt @ Jul 9 2009, 07:02 PM) WOW........didn't realize I would get sooo hammered on this threrad!! Not your fault at all. You asked a reasonable question in a respectful manner. |
|
|
|
| zymurgist |
Jul 10 2009, 07:35 AM
Post
#44
|
|
"Ace" Mechanic Group: Members Posts: 7,411 Joined: 9-June 05 From: Hagerstown, MD Member No.: 4,238 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 9 2009, 09:13 PM) I had one and my friend that died last fall had one that is in his garage. His widow is about to put it up for sale.. I get the feeling that I probably can't afford it, though. Not without liquidating what's left of my 401K, anyway. |
|
|
|
| ChrisFoley |
Jul 10 2009, 10:01 AM
Post
#45
|
|
I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,937 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None 
|
One of my customers told me that his 914-4 race car used to have Kugelfisher MFI when he was in Germany.
|
|
|
|
| Derek Seymour |
Jul 10 2009, 01:31 PM
Post
#46
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 10-March 09 From: Yucaipa Member No.: 10,151 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 9 2009, 05:47 PM) Not sure I understand the question. But the BMW 2002 tii had MFI, and it was a 4-cyl motor. I think the right person with enough knowledge of the kugelfisher fuel pumps could retune it for the 2.0l Type IV... -Josh2 You nailed it.. that's what I was looking for. QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Jul 10 2009, 09:01 AM) One of my customers told me that his 914-4 race car used to have Kugelfisher MFI when he was in Germany. Cool... so it's been done! Noted for future plans (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
|
|
|
| jhadler |
Jul 10 2009, 02:07 PM
Post
#47
|
|
Long term tinkerer... Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 |
QUOTE(Derek Seymour @ Jul 10 2009, 12:31 PM) QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 9 2009, 05:47 PM) Not sure I understand the question. But the BMW 2002 tii had MFI, and it was a 4-cyl motor. I think the right person with enough knowledge of the kugelfisher fuel pumps could retune it for the 2.0l Type IV... -Josh2 You nailed it.. that's what I was looking for. Here's your donor car!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-BMW-32...p4506.m20.l1116 -Josh2 |
|
|
|
| mightyohm |
Jul 10 2009, 05:30 PM
Post
#48
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,277 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 162 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I can't imagine that a Kugelfischer system would work very well on a type-IV without a custom space cam. It would be interesting to see if it would even run - but how would you drive the injection pump? Is Kugelfischer cam driven like Bosch MFI?
|
|
|
|
| Derek Seymour |
Jul 10 2009, 06:00 PM
Post
#49
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 10-March 09 From: Yucaipa Member No.: 10,151 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(mightyohm @ Jul 10 2009, 04:30 PM) Is Kugelfischer cam driven like Bosch MFI? Yes ... Looks like this discussion has happened umm..... somehwere else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) The Kugelfischer system: http://www.thetiiregister.com/pump/pump_guide_v1.pdf The Bosch version: http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_MFI/TipMFI.htm |
|
|
|
| charliew |
Jul 10 2009, 06:01 PM
Post
#50
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,363 Joined: 31-July 07 From: Crawford, TX. Member No.: 7,958 |
If I remember right the rochester FI corvette was rated at a lower hp number than the two four factory carbs. Maximum hp and torque can always be achieved with mechanical fi or carbs but the drivability will always be easier to achieve with efi in my shade tree opinion.
|
|
|
|
| mightyohm |
Jul 10 2009, 06:03 PM
Post
#51
|
|
Advanced Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,277 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Seattle, WA Member No.: 162 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(charliew @ Jul 10 2009, 05:01 PM) If I remember right the rochester FI corvette was rated at a lower hp number than the two four factory carbs. Maximum hp and torque can always be achieved with mechanical fi or carbs but the drivability will always be easier to achieve with efi in my shade tree opinion. Why should MFI or carbs be capable of more HP than EFI? This has been mentioned already on this thread, and I don't get it! |
|
|
|
| SLITS |
Jul 10 2009, 06:09 PM
Post
#52
|
|
"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
convlueted airflow .... manifold restriction .... etc
Straightest shot at the valve wins ............... |
|
|
|
| carr914 |
Jul 10 2009, 06:23 PM
Post
#53
|
|
Racer from Birth Group: Members Posts: 119,313 Joined: 2-February 04 From: Tampa,FL Member No.: 1,623 Region Association: South East States  |
QUOTE(mightyohm @ Jul 10 2009, 08:03 PM) QUOTE(charliew @ Jul 10 2009, 05:01 PM) If I remember right the rochester FI corvette was rated at a lower hp number than the two four factory carbs. Incorrect. In 1957, there was a Dual Carb with 245hp, an Injected at 250hp (mild cams), another Dual Carb with 270hp and the King of the Hill was a Injected with 283hp. That was the big marketing thing 283HP in a 283ci engine. T.C.   |
|
|
|
| jhadler |
Jul 10 2009, 06:23 PM
Post
#54
|
|
Long term tinkerer... Group: Members Posts: 1,879 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Lyons, CO Member No.: 529 |
Thanks Slits, couldn't have been said better.
-Josh2 |
|
|
|
| rhodyguy |
Jul 10 2009, 08:25 PM
Post
#55
|
|
Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out. Group: Members Posts: 22,116 Joined: 2-March 03 From: Orion's Bell. The BELL! Member No.: 378 Region Association: Galt's Gulch |
wow. a clutch switch that controls something other than the clutch package. i need to get me one of them things. why don't you just put the powerplant from your vw in your 914?
|
|
|
|
| ghuff |
Jul 13 2009, 03:19 PM
Post
#56
|
|
This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(jhadler @ Jul 9 2009, 01:54 PM) ghuff... Dude, chill. The question was asked about MFI... What exactly do you think MFI is? MFI is a system that was used on late 60's and early 70's Porsche and BMW models, as well as others (I think there was an MFI Vette if I recall). It is Mechanical Fuel Injection. There is no MAP sensor, to MAF sensor or otherwise. It is a metered, mechanical fuel pump that is connected -directly- to the throttle. This means careful tuning needs to be done to an MFI car as there is nothing more than the state of the tune to meter the A/F ratio. I have driven some MFI cars, and the throttle response is unlike anything else I've ever driven (and I've driven quite a lot of different cars, both in stock trim, and race trim). A very well tuned MFI system is a joy to drive. But they're hard to tune that well. I'm sure someone has already said this, but CIS is -not- MFI. CIS uses an airflow metering plate that is connected to the fuel pump. EFI is great, it can be tuned to compensate for a vast array of different configurations and conditions. It is inherently more flexible of a design than MFI, but is limited in the sense that it usually requires measurement of the air in the manifold, either by vacuum (MAP), or air flow (MAF). These sensors can sometimes be fooled by uneven pulses in the intake manifold due to large amounts of overlap in the cam(s). There are some simple EFI systems that are based solely on rpm and throttle position, but they lack the flexibility of the EFI, or the immediate throttle response of the MFI. Ghuff, you seem to be tooting your horn pretty loud about turbo and vtec cars, cool. I like turbo cars, and I like EFI for turbo cars because it's flexible enough to allow for all sorts of reconfigurations and varying boost levels. But this topic started asking about MFI, and MFI is a very particular and unique beast. To the original poster - yes MFI could be done. On a four, I'd say a reconfiguration of the MFI off a BMW 2002 tii would be one way to do it. Custom throttles would be needed, probably modified aftermarket ITB's. And by the way ghuff, this board is really here to talk about 40 year old sports cars that we enjoy. It's not everyone's favorite thing, but it's ours. If you think the Hondas and VW's are superior, you may be right. They certainly have 30 to 40 years more engineering behind them. But it doesn't change how we feel about our cars. Don't like 'em? That's okay, there are a lot of cars out there I don't like either. But here, we try to keep the focus on 914's and related cars... -Josh2 Tooting my own horn? Sorry guys, no matter how you cut it, MFI sucks on any motor compared to EFI. If this were the case, why did we leave MFI? Why are all the highest HP engines and most drivable cars on EFI? Because it is better, more technologically advanced, makes better power on any setup and cleaner power. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) I guess the laughs are on me for attempting to reason with a bunch of folks stuck in 1970! So yes, any way you cut it EFI is far superior to MFI of CIS. My "tooting my own horn" turbo setup could be installed on any 914 with wild cams and run just as good with no turbo. The car was used as an example to show you what MFI can not do, which is waht modern EFI can do. I am sorry you do not understand simple facts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
|
|
|
| jasons |
Jul 13 2009, 03:32 PM
Post
#57
|
|
Jackstand Extraordinaire Group: Members Posts: 2,002 Joined: 19-August 04 From: Scottsdale, AZ Member No.: 2,573 Region Association: None |
Just drop it. This was never meant to be a thread to compare EFI, CIS, and MFI. It was just a thread asking if something could be done. Not if it should be done. We've already alienated the original poster who will probably never come back. Enough damage done, lets just move on.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead horse.gif) |
|
|
|
| Rand |
Jul 13 2009, 03:48 PM
Post
#58
|
|
Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Although some of the other info has been interesting, and I think some discussion of comparisons would have been appropriate if wasn't packaged with so much attitude. I wonder how this conversation have gone if the guys were standing around together in a real garage... Sometimes people act differently online. |
|
|
|
| tat2dphreak |
Jul 13 2009, 03:48 PM
Post
#59
|
|
stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region |
QUOTE Just drop it. please do, Ghuff... yes modern EFI is better than 35 year old MFI... wow, you really took a leap on that statement... but 35 year old EFI was not as mature as MFI at the time... and that wasn't the question that was to be answered in this thread. all of your information has been wasted because it alienated a new member who asked a simple question. QUOTE can MFI mechanical fuel injection throttle bodies be setup on the 14, instead of running EFI?? that was answered by Krusty. the user didn't say, should I run a modern EFI or a 35 year old MFI... but that seems to be the question you tried to answer. |
|
|
|
| ghuff |
Jul 13 2009, 03:57 PM
Post
#60
|
|
This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 13 2009, 01:48 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Although some of the other info has been interesting, and I think some discussion of comparisons would have been appropriate if wasn't packaged with so much attitude. I wonder how this conversation have gone if the guys were standing around together in a real garage... Sometimes people act differently online. The same? With more laughing if it was not simply 914 world members. MFI.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) |
|
|
|
|
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 25th June 2024 - 11:32 PM |
Invision Power Board
v9.1.4 © 2024 IPS, Inc.