 Where is Ground Connection"B" ? |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
 Sep 23 2009, 12:21 PM
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#1
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Senior Member  Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region  |
Where is the ground numbered #83 (Ground connection "B") on a 1970 914? It's not the one in the rear trunk, and not the one by each headlight. It's the one that grounds all the dash switches, door switches, fan and heater switch, etc.
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Replies(100 - 119)
| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 26 2009, 08:21 AM
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#101
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
gprparts.com figgered it out.
QUOTE(Gint @ Sep 26 2009, 10:09 AM)  QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 26 2009, 07:04 AM) Do tell...here or PM. Click the link in Mark's sig... Edit: Not a link. Make that... call the number in Mark's sig. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 28 2009, 12:46 PM
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#102
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Great news (and one small concern). The new relay just arrived. It works! When I hit the brakes, or turn on the lights or the radio, it does not squawk! Here's the one remaining glitch that seems to me to be easily resolved. If you use the four ways or the regular turn signals, activating the flasher relay, the headlights go up and down continuously in sync with the flasher. Great if this were an emergency vehicle. Anyway. obvious to me, the electroignoramous, that this is an easily solved one...some direct connection between the relay and the headlight switch. Help?
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| Spoke |
Sep 28 2009, 04:15 PM
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#103
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,994 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None 
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It sure does sound like something in the flasher circuit is crossed to the headlight motor. Are the headlights on or just the motor is running?
I don't have a schematic with me to help out with this one. BTW, yea for fixing the chattering relay. What did you do with the fried wire? That wire was on the headlight switch, correct? And now you have trouble with the headlight motor. Hmmm..... |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 28 2009, 04:53 PM
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#104
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
The fried wire is an illumination bulb for the speedo.
The headlights aren't coming on, it's just the buckets raising and lowering in sync with the flasher. QUOTE(Spoke @ Sep 28 2009, 06:15 PM) It sure does sound like something in the flasher circuit is crossed to the headlight motor. Are the headlights on or just the motor is running? I don't have a schematic with me to help out with this one. BTW, yea for fixing the chattering relay. What did you do with the fried wire? That wire was on the headlight switch, correct? And now you have trouble with the headlight motor. Hmmm..... |
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| Spoke |
Sep 28 2009, 05:24 PM
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#105
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,994 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None
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There's a gray wire on the light switch that controls the up movement of the light buckets. It's connected to pin 56. Check this wire to see that nothing is interfering with it.
Be very careful when moving wires on the light switch as at least one wire (pin 30, red) comes directly from the battery with no fuses. You can try pulling off the gray wire on pin 56 to see if the headlight bucket movement stops. Before you remove this wire or even move the light switch, disconnect the battery negative terminal and put a rag or something to keep it from moving back onto the terminal. When you have the switch moved or wire moved and they are not touching anything, then reconnect the negative terminal. You don't need to bolt it back down as the low currents of the motor won't cause a problem and this will save you time. When you make any more movements of wires on the light switch or put it back in, remove the negative terminal again. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 28 2009, 06:16 PM
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#106
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I'll check that out tomorrow morning. I just went out to see what happens if I just pull the light switch. Everything works perfectly.
Isn't there some great "clue" in that with the old relay, everything you turned on caused the relay to go crazy. Now, with it replaced that situation has gone away, but using the relay (turn signal use or 4 way flasher use) causes the buckets to rise and lower in sync with the relays flashes? QUOTE(Spoke @ Sep 28 2009, 07:24 PM) There's a gray wire on the light switch that controls the up movement of the light buckets. It's connected to pin 56. Check this wire to see that nothing is interfering with it. Be very careful when moving wires on the light switch as at least one wire (pin 30, red) comes directly from the battery with no fuses. You can try pulling off the gray wire on pin 56 to see if the headlight bucket movement stops. Before you remove this wire or even move the light switch, disconnect the battery negative terminal and put a rag or something to keep it from moving back onto the terminal. When you have the switch moved or wire moved and they are not touching anything, then reconnect the negative terminal. You don't need to bolt it back down as the low currents of the motor won't cause a problem and this will save you time. When you make any more movements of wires on the light switch or put it back in, remove the negative terminal again. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 28 2009, 07:47 PM
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#107
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Hmmmmmmmm...looking at the wiring diagram, the blue/black wires that I burnt up...the ones that illuminate the speedo, they go to pin #58 of the headlight switch. The same switch that's activating, to raise the headlights, any time I use the flashers or 4 ways
QUOTE(Spoke @ Sep 28 2009, 07:24 PM) There's a gray wire on the light switch that controls the up movement of the light buckets. It's connected to pin 56. Check this wire to see that nothing is interfering with it. Be very careful when moving wires on the light switch as at least one wire (pin 30, red) comes directly from the battery with no fuses. You can try pulling off the gray wire on pin 56 to see if the headlight bucket movement stops. Before you remove this wire or even move the light switch, disconnect the battery negative terminal and put a rag or something to keep it from moving back onto the terminal. When you have the switch moved or wire moved and they are not touching anything, then reconnect the negative terminal. You don't need to bolt it back down as the low currents of the motor won't cause a problem and this will save you time. When you make any more movements of wires on the light switch or put it back in, remove the negative terminal again. |
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| FourBlades |
Sep 28 2009, 08:41 PM
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#108
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From Wreck to Rockin Group: Members Posts: 2,055 Joined: 3-December 07 From: Brevard, FL Member No.: 8,414 Region Association: South East States
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You are doing great. I think more mechanics are scared of eletrical gremlins than all the other problems combined. My guess is bad switch or short inside your dash, maybe the same one that fried your other wire. Take off the lower dash panel to make getting to wires in the dash easier. Pull out one seat and put a carpet or something in there so you can lie comfortably on your back and look up at the wiring. Changing the switch is tricky because of all the connections. Take good pictures of it before doing it. Maybe someone has a known good one to loan you. The simplest answer would be a short inside the switch is causing the headlights to cycle up and down. I have connected a 5 amp fuse between the negative terminal and main ground when initially debugging my car. That way the 5 amper fries before taking your wiring with it. You can't crank your starter with this set up, but you can test all the smaller stuff. When you get it all figured out, come over to my house and help me figure out why my red car won't start anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) John |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 28 2009, 09:08 PM
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#109
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Thanks. Great idea about taking out a seat and the lower dash . No idea what you mean about connecting the 5 amp fuse between the negative terminal and the main ground (negative battery terminal? What main ground?). In your second paragraph, am I right in assuming you're referring to the headlight switch? How did a new flasher relay "cure" my old problem while creating a new one if it was th headlight switch all along (asking out of ignorance, not doubt)?
QUOTE(FourBlades @ Sep 28 2009, 10:41 PM) You are doing great. I think more mechanics are scared of eletrical gremlins than all the other problems combined. My guess is bad switch or short inside your dash, maybe the same one that fried your other wire. Take off the lower dash panel to make getting to wires in the dash easier. Pull out one seat and put a carpet or something in there so you can lie comfortably on your back and look up at the wiring. Changing the switch is tricky because of all the connections. Take good pictures of it before doing it. Maybe someone has a known good one to loan you. The simplest answer would be a short inside the switch is causing the headlights to cycle up and down. I have connected a 5 amp fuse between the negative terminal and main ground when initially debugging my car. That way the 5 amper fries before taking your wiring with it. You can't crank your starter with this set up, but you can test all the smaller stuff. When you get it all figured out, come over to my house and help me figure out why my red car won't start anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) John |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 29 2009, 11:07 AM
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#110
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
VICTORY (fingers crossed) !!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
I pulled the headlight switch down, and guess what? One of the gray wires was a "little " fried", exposing a very small section of bare wire. I threw some electrical tape over it, reinstalled the wire (all with the negative terminal off the battery), and everything is operating perfectly. As it would truly be a bitch to repair that short section of wire, in that tight space without soldering my eyeballs together, is it cool to just do a good job of taping the wire? Is there a "paint on" insulation...like the rubber stuff you can put on tool handles? |
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| underthetire |
Sep 29 2009, 11:18 AM
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#111
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
They do make electrical goo, I would try and slip a piece of shrink tubing over it if you can. The goo makes a mess.
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| Rod |
Sep 29 2009, 11:49 AM
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#112
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 616 Joined: 1-January 08 From: Farnham UK Member No.: 8,526 Region Association: England |
Fantastic. Many many congratulations!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
(Told you it was the relay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 29 2009, 12:12 PM
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#113
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Yeah...there was no way to slip any shrink wrap overit. Bought the "goo"...$18 for about an ounce!!!
QUOTE(underthetire @ Sep 29 2009, 01:18 PM) They do make electrical goo, I would try and slip a piece of shrink tubing over it if you can. The goo makes a mess. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 29 2009, 12:14 PM
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#114
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Thanks...yeah, I;m thrilled. I'm sure somebody down the road will need to know what I went through and learned throughout this ordeal. Problem is, like all my previous marriages, I've already blocked this painful memory out! On to the carb issues! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Thanks to all!!! QUOTE(Rod @ Sep 29 2009, 01:49 PM) Fantastic. Many many congratulations!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (Told you it was the relay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) |
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| Rod |
Sep 29 2009, 12:21 PM
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#115
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 616 Joined: 1-January 08 From: Farnham UK Member No.: 8,526 Region Association: England |
Thats the wonderful thing about ironing out problems on old cars (especially 914's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) You do quickly forget just how much effort the problem was and move onto the next one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I very nearly have a perfect 914, just the.......
Heat Exchangers Muffler Brake pads New Discs Alt Belt And I'm there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 29 2009, 12:30 PM
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#116
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
As a wise man once said, "The in box is never empty".
QUOTE(Rod @ Sep 29 2009, 02:21 PM) Thats the wonderful thing about ironing out problems on old cars (especially 914's (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)) You do quickly forget just how much effort the problem was and move onto the next one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I very nearly have a perfect 914, just the....... Heat Exchangers Muffler Brake pads New Discs Alt Belt And I'm there (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| FourBlades |
Sep 29 2009, 03:25 PM
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#117
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From Wreck to Rockin Group: Members Posts: 2,055 Joined: 3-December 07 From: Brevard, FL Member No.: 8,414 Region Association: South East States
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Awesome!!! You rock man!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) I thought you had another problem besides the relay. Your relay was obviously bad and it was hiding the grey wire short. The main ground I am referring to is the bolt that the black wire coming from your battery connects to. If you put a fuse in between there it will blow first before frying your wires. You might want to visually inspect whatever dash wires you can find for more problems. Something caused your guage wires to fry. But anyway: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) John |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 29 2009, 05:08 PM
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#118
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Thanks. Not sure when, or how, the gray wire got shorted. Could have been by a PO, or my sloppiness with trouble shooting before I got educated by you guys.
Also, on every schematic I've seen for the 1970, there are two black/red wires going to fuse #11. One is the interior light and the other is the warning light switch (off of the master cylinder / and parking brake I assume). I have one black red going to #11, and the other going to fuse #12 (not sure which one is going to which). The one on fuse #12 was very badly fried (probably because it's a 25amp fuse instead of an 8), but obviously still working since both my interior light and warning light were working. Anyway, I spliced a new wire in there, used the liquid insulator to coat the short on the gray wire on the headlight switch, and buttoned everything back up. Everything is working perfectly. Since I also fried one of the black/blue illumination wires on the speedometer, I am awaiting a new socket from another member, and will splice that into the harness. I'm soldering and using heat shrink...no electrical tape at all. As soon as I get that done, she'll be "healed". QUOTE(FourBlades @ Sep 29 2009, 05:25 PM) Awesome!!! You rock man!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) I thought you had another problem besides the relay. Your relay was obviously bad and it was hiding the grey wire short. The main ground I am referring to is the bolt that the black wire coming from your battery connects to. If you put a fuse in between there it will blow first before frying your wires. You might want to visually inspect whatever dash wires you can find for more problems. Something caused your guage wires to fry. But anyway: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) John |
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| ghuff |
Sep 29 2009, 05:11 PM
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#119
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This is certainly not what I expected down here. Group: Members Posts: 849 Joined: 21-May 09 From: Bodymore Murderland Member No.: 10,389 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I have bought cars from people for pennies on the dollar due to electrical problems.
I scored my wife's 02 Jetta 1.8T for 3000$ because it had improper fluids, needed suspension bushings and needed about 8 hours worth of sorting out bad grounds and sketchy bosch connectors. 20 or so hours later, I had a 6000-7000$ car. Electrical and fuel injection/running problems are the worst things. Congrats on the victory Ken. I expect you to bring it by sometime to keep the blue car company. If we keep them far enough apart, your car should not catch the jackstands from mine. |
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| kenshapiro2002 |
Sep 29 2009, 05:20 PM
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#120
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,441 Joined: 23-July 09 From: Bawlmer, MD Member No.: 10,598 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I want those jackstands! Anybody know who has shorties? Mine are 12" minimum, and I hate jacking the car up that high.
P.S. Hope O.C. was good to you. QUOTE(ghuff @ Sep 29 2009, 07:11 PM) I have bought cars from people for pennies on the dollar due to electrical problems. I scored my wife's 02 Jetta 1.8T for 3000$ because it had improper fluids, needed suspension bushings and needed about 8 hours worth of sorting out bad grounds and sketchy bosch connectors. 20 or so hours later, I had a 6000-7000$ car. Electrical and fuel injection/running problems are the worst things. Congrats on the victory Ken. I expect you to bring it by sometime to keep the blue car company. If we keep them far enough apart, your car should not catch the jackstands from mine. |
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