'73 Resto & Suby 6 Conversion, or a primer on "How to convert your 914 to a Subaru 3.0" Options

[Zaney]

Chris, does your clutch disc have 4 lg springs only or 4 lg spg's with small spgs inside the lg ones for a total of 8?

I'm sure your mount is fine. Ian designed his mount so it could be used with any Subie engine...maybe that's why it's different. Fits great I must say.

I don't know on the clutch...already installed it about 3 months ago. It's a different kit than yours with a thicker pressure plate. I'm not gonna worry about it though...if it rattles I'll buy one from Subaru I guess. Seems like the worst that could happen is the disk gets chewed up. If I happen to separate the engine and trans anytime soon I'll check for you.

Edit:

This is the kit I bought. If you look REALLY close you can see 2 sets of springs for a total of 8...whew! Good news there. Gripforce on e-bay seems like a good outfit.

Clutch kit

I finally quit obsessing over it and took your advice. Ordered a KB03 this AM. I'll let you know when it gets here. BTW, all those chatter posts are on AWD systems. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Everything looks great and very familiar!

A little bird dropped me a question about this time in my build regarding the trans mount clearance. If this part of the cradle is not the lowest point then, disregard my nosiness.

Feel free to ask about any details that were not listed in any of the Suby builds here, especially Strawman! Geoff is very helpful!

Cheers!

Nate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

Nate, I think I can speak for Chris (and others) as well when I say thanks to you, Geoff, Bob and et al for looking over our projects. We need all the help we can get. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) I'm confused though. Were you pointing out that my cradle needs to attached to the firewall also or that I run the risk of tearing my trans mount off? As things sit presently, my oil pan is about 1.5" lower than the cradle. I may have to attach a skid plate to the cradle to rectify but that will be addressed later.

If the cradle would take the scrape rather than tail mount then no worries. The way mine was situated the Suby mount would take the brunt of a blow. So, that is why I used the 911 mounts at the stock positions with the trans stubs mounts to the case itself.

Hope it clarifies my nosiness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Looks great!
NAte

[76-914]

I installed the new clutch



and TO bearing. Must admit that "pull clutch thing" threw me a curve ball at first.



But before I slapped the drive train back into the car for another fit I did something I'd wanted to do since I began bouncing this cradle design around in my head. First I retired this contraption. They will be re-purposed in a welding station.



And did this. $24 worth of casters, scrap piece of DOM & 2" angle. It's a dream to move around the shop and no worries about tipping over, either.









But I saved the best part for last. Watch how fast and easy the install back into the car goes. After rolling the assm under the car (with the wheels on the car) I line up front left mount and place the floor jack under the cradle



Raise it 2" or until the wheel falls out






Then the bolt is slid back thru with a large washer to mate against the factory bracket and spread the load. BTW, both the bolt and washers are re-purposed from the old rear mounts. The nut with a smaller diameter fat washer are started from above but not tightened. One down



Repeat on the right side. Two down







Back to the tail and just like the sides it's jacked up 2" but after the wheel falls out the receiver is removed from the tranny and the rear mounts are fastened to the old rear receivers as shown in an earlier post here. After the rears mounts are tightened I go back and finish tightening the fronts.








And it's a good thing that I went with gas struts for the lids because this brace that contained the 2 torsion rods for the old truck lift ended up dead center of the TB throat. I'll grind 'em down later but that spot might get a trim anyway. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)





Plenty of clearance up front



This is the Carrot in Front of the "yours truly" Donkey. Just seeing it sitting there should keep me motivated. I believe the cradle is finished short of paint and a few weld tabs for the shifter or exhaust system.

[euro911]

Cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There's no front cross member under the engine? The mounts being aft of the engine's centerline are adequate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Chris H.]

See now you're just showing off...slow down Kent! I almost caught up! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Looks great and it will be nice when you have to drop the engine. So easy.

[76-914]

Cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There's no front cross member under the engine? The mounts being aft of the engine's centerline are adequate? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Adequate? Adequate! There's no adequate in 914's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) Actually your correct. No front cross member. When I pull the tranny I need to brace the front of the engine because it is totally front heavy w/o it. In it's factory configuration there is a support attached from top center of the tranny to the firewall.

[AfricanHijinx]

I love that mount

[76-914]

See now you're just showing off...slow down Kent! I almost caught up! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Looks great and it will be nice when you have to drop the engine. So easy.

Oh I think you are ahead of me Chris. Anything that's gone quickly is a result of others previous endeavors, including you. Less research time=more build time. The roll around cradle makes it so fast and easy that I don't hesitate to R&R as needed. I think I have about $150.00 +/- $10 in materials including the wheels. Now if you add in the bender, tube notcher and bi metal hole saws your looking at about $350 to make one. There is no doubt that it is easier to buy one but none were available and this helped offset the cost of my welding equipment. Any of you locals are welcome to make the 2 bends necessary on my bender, should the bug bite you.

I love that mount

Thanks. One of my ideas actually worked. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[ruby914]

Kent,
I love the casters idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
When I get back to working on my car, I was going to look into a support attached from the tranny to the firewall. Maybe you can pave the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[jimkelly]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[JStroud]

Nice engine cradle, the wheel setup is brilliant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Definitely have to copy that design when I get ready to build mine.
You guys are way ahead of me....I'm still trying to get my shop done so I can get started.

Nice job Kent, keep the details coming. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Jeff

[76-914]

Kent,
I love the casters idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
When I get back to working on my car, I was going to look into a support attached from the tranny to the firewall. Maybe you can pave the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Sorry I'm late getting back with you guy's. Hey Mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) , you do realize that you are one of the MAIN reasons I got into this. Not sure whether to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif) you or (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif) you, yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Just kidding. I did take a quick look at that and the first ? that came to mind is why? It is only about 2" aft of the engine mounts so it isn't to add support when the tranny is out?? Given the bolt thru it was horizontal I doubt it was for torsional control?? Was it there to spread the weight load? If it were attached to the trunk wall what reinforcements would be needed?? Your thoughts?

Nice engine cradle, the wheel setup is brilliant (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Definitely have to copy that design when I get ready to build mine.
You guys are way ahead of me....I'm still trying to get my shop done so I can get started.

Nice job Kent, keep the details coming. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Jeff

Hey thx Jeff. You might want to go .125" wall if you go DOM. BTW, that was one 10' piece of tube. I cut it a little close as I had 2.5" left over when finished! Next time I won't cut it as close as it took too much effort (you know, that double and triple checking your measurements (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ). I could have used a little more cushion when constructing it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

So I better post something up so I don't have to call myself out on "The Slackers Thread". I really don't have (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) to show as I have been trudging thru this maelstrom known as a wiring harness. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) There aren't enough joint's in the world to take the edge of this job. So I (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) with it until I begin to feel my sanity slipping away then move onto something trivial. Or should I say something less demanding? Simple suits me well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

So as a diversion I'm falling back to something else. This is one of those items. The slave (is that politically correct?) cylinder needed another 5/8" clearance so....
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)





A flat panel would have made things a bit easier. This cover will need to be removeable to inspect/service the banjo fitting.





And as it turns out the starter needs a bit of room also. Even after I asked Bob which one would clear I still end up with a clearance issue. The good thing is if it takes a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) I won't have to worry about another one fitting if it happens in BFE. And before I get flamed for the elongated access remember that the engine/tranny combo is up and then slid forward, so it is necessary.



Rather than pontificate I'll just run some pic's past ya and you can use yer imagination or ask a question if ya have 'em.













This littl POS consumed 4 hr's of my day, after all was said and done. I couldn't be any slower if I tried. I had to go over it twice to fill any pin holes as I didn't want this piece rusting out soon.











After all that I ended up with this gap which I corrected with a tab welded in place. I'll show that in the next few days. It's primed, in place and already covered up as the trunk is converted back to the cat motel. Yea the little bastards sleep in the trunk but they do their business outside and whilst me neighbors have rodents we have none. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

So after a few more stints in the wiring asylum I soon found another item that required my attention (just don't make me go back to wireworld. BTW, I stole this idea from Bob (bigkat). I had laid out what I thought to be the correct location for the pump assembly then a little voice said better double check that so I went thru the threads and noticed that Bob had his centered a bit more than mine. I had fixated upon installing it upon a flat surface and almost ruined a good tank. After looking at Bob's install it occurred to me that the criteria was where the pick up is located! DUH (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) This is why you will see one drawing imposed upon another. The piece of wood held in place by the cleco side clamps is there to position the compass upon. By looking straight down the filler neck w/ a plumb bob I established the location of the reservoirs rim. By sticking a tape inside the reservoir I determined the diameter. Rather than bisecting a segment in the circle to locate center I just split the compass and worked off the edge of the circle. Once I felt OK about my location it was just a matter of figuring the offset in the pump itself and flipping the pickup sock 180'. I'll need to build a step onto the base of the cover to accommodate the offset on the tanks surface but that's another day.











and the $$$ shot

[euro911]

You're pretty good with that sheet metal fab, Kent (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)


When I mentioned an extra motor mount, I was thinking more along the lines of a front engine mount utilizing sort of rubber dampener to the firewall, rather than at the tranny (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

It just seems to me that a front mount will allow for a bit more aggressive driving (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[ruby914]

Hi Kent,
As I was reworking my cradle or at this point I could just call it a X-bar, I spent a lot of time thinking about the load distribution.
The lower Suby mounts are just about the CG of my WRX/901 combo. So all the static load is on the lower mounts. Under power the motor wants to pivot about the drive shafts. That takes load off of the lower mounts and more downward force on the 901 ears. Downshift and you get the opposite, down on the motor and up on the transaxle mounts. The 901 ears may have very little static load but under hard driving may take a beating. Braking may also push the motor forward and down about the lower mounts. With all that said, if an upper transaxle mount was horizontal it should better control loads under the torque of the motor. Am I over thinking it? Missing something? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) The way Subaru hung the motor or at least they way we 914 guys are doing it, just seems strange. Anyway, with the upper mount, I would be able to pull the transaxle without touching the motor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[76-914]

Hey Mike and Mark, I was at Hershel's (nineonefoursix) yesterday so we popped the hood and scratched our heads as we tried to figure it out. It won't help w/ torsional loads (at engine centerline) and not much vertical load (hanging) either. The connector between the tranny and firewall is like our bumper "dog bone" but elongated and will twist with little effort. It is angled down and aims at the front bumper. Makes me wonder if it is a brace for 4 wheeling when you are at an extreme downhill attitude. ?? The main reason I haven't (notice I didn't say didn't) run a brace from the firewall to engine is that I am not sure where one would connect to the front area of the engine. I haven't seen any suitable attach points on the engine itself. Not what I would consider load bearing points anyway. Next time I have it out I will check closely. Maybe a boss in that area that could be tapped?? I also considered connecting the cross brace with the firewall to cut down on for/aft movement but the tranny attach point is solid and should keep the engine combo in check when braking hard. In other words; I have no idea what I'm doing and time will tell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

[DBCooper]

In the first iteration of my car we used the 901 transmission, and my son broke one of the transmission mounting ears drag racing. Power shift, boom. After it was fixed I removed the engine cover and you could see the engine twist under load. For the second iteration with the Subaru transmission we used a pretty substantial urethane mount at the rear of the transmission that seems to have effectively eliminated torsional twist and any other movement. No problems so far and the poor car has been severely thrashed by a whole bunch of different people. Well, maybe not "thrashed" exactly, better to say "tested".

By the way, the other thing we did with the second iteration was change the intercooler location from the top of the engine compartment to a water-air at the front of the car. The engine cover was off so we could experiment with air flow, to see if we could make intercooler work there. I never saw how, so we changed it from the engine cover to the front of the car, where Porsche located their oil coolers. I sincerely doubt you could make a radiator located there cool the car, no matter what engine. I'm curious, but doubtful enough myself that I'd prefer someone else did the experimentation. So I could just watch.

[76-914]

Hey DB. I've read your thread a-z several times. I may know it better than you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I've stolen some of your idea's and as soon as I get my exhaust started I can begin stealing your shift set up, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Emulation being the sincerest form of flattery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Hopefully I won't twist the Suby Trans off it's mount. I liked your trans mount but didn't want to source that urethane mount. That is probably a 'stock" item for a fabricator but not your average shade tree guy so I stayed with factory rubber mount. I hope it's strong enough. I won't being driving mine as hard as you. If it ever actually becomes drivable I want to "bum" someones GoPro and watch what goes on in the engine compartment. OT: I saw a film of a Lycoming under load and I wished I hadn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I'm with you on cooling up front in the undisturbed air. I've read too many threads where others have failed. I think Chris even gave up on cooling his N/A engine back there.

[ruby914]

Kent,

A quick search for that top mount got me this quote:
"The Subaru Pitch Control Mount is found under the factory top-mount intercooler (installation is simple) between the fire wall and the front end of the transmission. The pitch mount is designed to produce crisper gear shifts by preventing the front end of the transmission from pitching up or down, forward and back."


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...ved=0CDIQrQMwAg

[DBCooper]

Hey DB. I've read your thread a-z several times. I may know it better than you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I've stolen some of your idea's and as soon as I get my exhaust started I can begin stealing your shift set up, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Emulation being the sincerest form of flattery (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) Hopefully I won't twist the Suby Trans off it's mount. I liked your trans mount but didn't want to source that urethane mount. That is probably a 'stock" item for a fabricator but not your average shade tree guy so I stayed with factory rubber mount. I hope it's strong enough. I won't being driving mine as hard as you. If it ever actually becomes drivable I want to "bum" someones GoPro and watch what goes on in the engine compartment. OT: I saw a film of a Lycoming under load and I wished I hadn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I'm with you on cooling up front in the undisturbed air. I've read too many threads where others have failed. I think Chris even gave up on cooling his N/A engine back there.

Why thanks. You're right, those urethane mounts were in a box of miscellaneous stuff under the bench and I don't know where they came from originally. Sorry.

I swear that cable shifter is the best thing ever invented by man. If you want me to take clearer photos with a ruler held up for scale let me know. To repeat what I told Ian, when you make your shifter you really need to do it with the idea of duplicating it later for others. And not just for Subaru transmissions, if you modified the transmission end to fit tail and side shifters I'm pretty sure you'd have something every 914 owner would want. Especially those poor tail shifter folk.

[Chris H.]

If you want me to take clearer photos with a ruler held up for scale let me know.

Since it's early and all, I''ll go ahead and answer for Kent....YES PLEASE! Pics with a ruler would be awesome! Need to get my cables ordered so it would be great to understand how to measure for them...

[OllieG]

If you want me to take clearer photos with a ruler held up for scale let me know.

Since it's early and all, I''ll go ahead and answer for Kent....YES PLEASE! Pics with a ruler would be awesome! Need to get my cables ordered so it would be great to understand how to measure for them...

Hi,

I've been following this great thread for a while in preparation of my Suby conversion, lurking in the sidelines so to speak, as I'm still just in the very early stages of body prep.. But I've seen your shifter vid DB and that thing is a work of art!..would love to know the specs so I can, well, copy it basically!! So I second Chris's enthusiasm..

Cheers, Ollie.