Fix a six, Like Neil Young says...rust is an insomniac Options

[Speedo]

So I have a couple questions...obviously the jackpoint location question. Next, what is the best way to weld up the jackpoint? My guess would be rosettes (in place of spot welds) and then a few stitches along the outside? It will be covered up? I am going to re-use the bottom of the door jam, and 12 inches of the sill I removed for access to the rocker for repair. I am not concerned about re-using and re-welding these areas as they are covered by the aluminum door sill trim...?
As it relates to the cooler for the engine...I am going to explore using a pair of narrow coolers in the front fender wells. The rotating wheels produce a lot of turbulence up there...a lot of moving air. I can also resort to my 911 fan pulley trick, where I use the largest crank pulley and the smallest fan pulley to create a 1.3 ratio advantage to the factory in fan air volume. More tomorrow.

[brant]

do you want me to get measurements from my car for the jack reinforcement position?

I would use the (aftermarket) rocker panels as a guide too....


you will need a cooler
there is also no air flow into the front wheel well... no slots for air to come in around the bumper (aka 911)

I'd go with mikes rear cooler option
I've done it once, its not as good for cooling as a front cooler in clean air
but its still a benefit, and although it only knocks 20degree's off.... that's 20degree's more than not having a cooler.

[mepstein]

So on a side note...the original engine is stored (pickled). The plan is to build up a 2.7 RS spec MFI engine. In fact it is all ready to be assembled. I don't want to cut the nose of the car. Is there room in either front fender (and airflow) that will allow me to put a cooler up there? What do most people do for cooling when they transplant engines?

Speedo

The smaller T engines did not get front coolers but all the S engines did. I would plan for additional cooling since your using a high performance engine.

914 fenders don't get airflow or have width like 911's.

[Speedo]

I need the measurement of the outer rocker bolt hole under the jack point. The driver side of my car has that hole pretty close to centered under the jackpoint. Mr rear quarter in front of the wheel was removed to gain access to do this repair. I cannot use the RD replacement outer rocker to position the jackpoint as I need to center it using the edges of both wheel arches...and I only have the front wheel arch till I weld the q-panel back on. If someone can tell me "yeah the hole is directly under the jackpoint", I will go with that. Otherwise I need to be patient and get the correct placement. Not inclined to weld the jackpoint in the wrong place.
So I am ok to use rosettes around the jackpoint and then a few "beads" on the outside edges?

Speedo

[Luke M]

I need the measurement of the outer rocker bolt hole under the jack point. The driver side of my car has that hole pretty close to centered under the jackpoint. Mr rear quarter in front of the wheel was removed to gain access to do this repair. I cannot use the RD replacement outer rocker to position the jackpoint as I need to center it using the edges of both wheel arches...and I only have the front wheel arch till I weld the q-panel back on. If someone can tell me "yeah the hole is directly under the jackpoint", I will go with that. Otherwise I need to be patient and get the correct placement. Not inclined to weld the jackpoint in the wrong place.
So I am ok to use rosettes around the jackpoint and then a few "beads" on the outside edges?

Speedo

Hi Lars,

I have a set of factory outer rockers that came off my 6. I can go out and take some measurements for you. I can also measure the center line of the jack post if need be.
Let me know what you need and I can take a few pics for you too.

Happy Easter

[Speedo]

Thanks Luke! In Ricks's thread post #73 the pics show the jack receiver and the bolt hole for the outer rocker underneath it. This is the measurement I need....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...26585&st=60

[Luke M]

This is what I got from the outer rocker panel.
From the bottom side of the jack post ( rocker mount hole ) to the center of the next (forward/center mount hole) is: 20 3/4 '' center to center .

[rick 918-S]

Did you get what you need? If not I can get you accurate measurements off my Alien or my 6.

[rick 918-S]

Progress...you could put a Sherman tank on the right side of this car and jack it up. Sleeve inside the repair makes this stiff as hell (how stiff is hell?).
I need to position the new jackpoint. Checked the right side and looks as though the center of the jackpoint is directly above the outer rocker panel nut below it. The other means I have to find the location is using the new outer rocker from RD and trying to center the hole for the jackpoint in the opening. I measured the driver side and it appears to be centered above the outer rocker nut.
My fear is relying on the repro outer rocker....and having the rocker not be exact. There is not much margin for error. Suggestions would be helpful.
The sill triangle needs to be massaged also...stamping is relatively correct, but does not fit my car well. The flange on the inside needs to be longer. Compared to the original...
So I added 3/8ths to give me something to work with.

I don't get this. The triangles work perfect. Use the sill piece above as a guide for setting those up. If you had to weld a strip of metal to those to get them to fit you need to recheck the parts you are attaching them to.

The only issue with fit is the tail of the triangle needs to be curved to replicate the original.

[Luke M]

Did the measurements help ?

I found a few pics of the jack post/rocker mount hole if it helps you.

[Speedo]

I figured it out. Staged the outer rocker with a temporary fit of the rear quarter panel. Used the repro outer rocker as a guide. Centered the jack receiver, and the outer reinforcement.
BTW, triangles were not perfect.
I had to massage the steel triangles on every side to make them fit. My old removed triangle was too rusty and twisted to compare. I have never been able to use a repro steel part whether 911, 356 or 914 that was plug and play. I expect it to be close, but do not expect it to fit first try.
I am ready to be done with the passenger rocker...and move on.

[rick 918-S]

I figured it out. Staged the outer rocker with a temporary fit of the rear quarter panel. Used the repro outer rocker as a guide. Centered the jack receiver, and the outer reinforcement.
BTW, triangles were not perfect.
I had to massage the steel triangles on every side to make them fit. My old removed triangle was too rusty and twisted to compare. I have never been able to use a repro steel part whether 911, 356 or 914 that was plug and play. I expect it to be close, but do not expect it to fit first try.
I am ready to be done with the passenger rocker...and move on.

Are you saying the fold or shape of the triangle was correct just the weld flange was too short allow you to comfortably weld to the rocker? I think I got what your saying. In my case I use a spot welder and attach the triangle to the rocker before I close up the rocker. Then install the sill shelf after the rocker is welded in place. Either method works. Stay on it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[rick 918-S]

A message for all who read this thread. Luke pointed out that I installed a double layer in the rail on Ben's 6 when I did the rail repair. This serves two functions. One, less important but functionally as important is heat transfer. This will allow the single outer layer to transfer weld heat into the thicker two layers slowing the transfer and help reduce warping and shrinking.

The second and most important reason in a unit body car is structural. When your talking about trying to butt weld a rail section and count on your weld to carry a vertical, horizontal and angular flexion you will very likely not succeed. By adding the stiffener or backer you ensure the joint is safe.

One word of caution though. The ribs on the outer panel serve two functions. One is strength the other is weakness. Strength in the design, but a designed weakness as a crush zone to allow the chassis a place to give and absorb energy in a collision. The energy transfer passes around you instead of into you. You will not want to bridge these or eliminate them. They serve a function.

Sorry for the hi-jack. I hope it doesn't cause a debate in your build thread. I felt it was important that your readers understand the function of the chassis and proper repair methods.

After I posted this I figured I should start a thread on this as a resource. So here's the link for those that want to expand and not muddy up this great build.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=280027

[Speedo]

Rick,
No issue with the resourceful information. No hijack interpreted.
Lots of different ways to skin this cat. An old mentor of mine, Grady Clay was always pushing me to reinforce the weak points on this chassis....and not for purposes of racing, but strength and longevity. The inner rocker is fluted for stiffness, and to allow for the stamping to retain shape. The jackpoint however staunchly reinforced, will transfer impact through the rear cockpit wall separating the two sides of the longitudinals. My reinforcements in this area provided strength but also allowed for easier welding of my splices.
I jigged my sectioned q-panel in place...

And clamped up the "centered" outer rocker

This allowed me to figure out exactly where the receiver and reinforcement needed to be. The captured nut under the inner rocker was not exactly centered under the outer rocker receiver hole. Glad I didn't assume that...and thanks to Luke and Brant for sending me pictures to try to help position the outer rocker. This was the correct way to do it.

My original placement marks for the receiver against the inner rocker would have been "off" by 1/4 inch...not a deal breaker, but that would have required making up the difference by modifying the opening in the outer rocker

Squared up in the correct position and ready to be prepped for welding. I will probably use rosettes around the perimeter then spaced beads along the outside.

Luke, why is your entire longitudinal sectioned and removed from the chassis? Do I want to know?

[Speedo]

Bottom of the lock post is weak and need to be rehabbed before being spliced back in. I think I can clean it up.
Need to remove the rot and add good steel back in. Most of this damage was hidden behing gobs of lead which once removed...showed the damage. This is the backside of the area where the lower lockpost meets the sill plate. A strange area of overlap with a lot of lead

Progress is slow here...

[brant]

Progress is great. !

[Luke M]

Luke, why is your entire longitudinal sectioned and removed from the chassis? Do I want to know?


Hi Lars,

The repair on your 6 is looking good. On my 6 the hole right side is shot. It's not worth fixing a piece here n there. The more I dug into it the more rust and damaged sheet metal I found. I have purchased all of the new metal ( some from RD and some NOS ) for the repair. The more I looked at the car the more I wanted an NOS replacement part for the repair. It would be easier for me to just cut out all of the rusted metal and replace it with the new piece. It will not be an easy fix but it's the only way that I can see it being fixed properly. My other option ( if I can't locate an NOS part ) is to buy a good parts car and cut that section off it for the repair. I'll see what Hershey brings in and go from there.

Keep up the great work and post pics as you go.

[Speedo]

Last few inches of the passenger sill were lingerie. Not sure they would have survived a re-weld. Need to cut fit flange and weld.
Now that I have the jackpoint centered...

Very ready to close up this section of the car. I'm a 911 guy and this is my first foray into the "dark side". Taking longer to do things correctly...but that's the way it is.

[76-914]

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[DCJosh]

This thread has me afraid of what I might find.