 PIX, Pix Of Enlightenment |
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| bandjoey |
 Oct 16 2013, 10:54 AM
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#12
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bandjoey  Group: Members Posts: 4,930 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
Donor Motor for the Limo? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| SirAndy |
Oct 16 2013, 11:19 AM
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#13
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,945 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Oct 16 2013, 08:58 AM)  I thought the firing order thing was how they finally solved the vibration problems in the 908 motors? Some of the 908s, at least, used an upright fan that is very similar to the standard 911 one. I can't remember where i read that article, it was an interview with the guy who designed the 908 engine. Old Pano maybe??? It's a really interesting read ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 17 2013, 02:22 PM
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#14
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
So.
I recently took possession of two(2)2.7L(164") Corvair engines. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I doubt it would be as simple as merely welding sawn,machined cases together, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/smlove2.gif) then,installing a custom crank and cam.The problem then becomes the cylinder heads. Metal joining technology has come a long way since '65. Look,if that guy out there in boonville Norway(er..corr Sweden) can do it,what,if only money,is stopping us(me)? It is a matter of will.Luke,do or not do. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) / (edit:08/14/16): -------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------------------------------------------  http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/boxer-engi...-8-project.html Hmmm..Seems the flat eight affliction is not confined to Porsche enthusiasts,it's catching. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) / (Edit:08/17/16): The context,an answer to a question posed to 'engine dorks' about crankenrods.  HD You could use a knife and fork rod set,the pistons in line,radially. The advantage of the 'boxer' design is the cancelling of the primary unbalance forces. Pointers: https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...a%20boxer%20six https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...boxer+animation https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...nd%20g%20forces The crankshaft is connected to the wristpin by the,'connecting rod',holding the piston,with the piston,or 'wrist' pin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-KSsaH-3b0 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Dorks,and Boffins,working at Porsche,MercedesBenz,Ferrari,and other manufacturers,for centuries. You can join them here,bring a slide rule. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...+degree+florida 11,768 m/s² 1200Gs - Deceleration of a woodpecker's head! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) / 'Boxer': Pistons move in opposite directions,a crankpin for each piston. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_g_K0nyGHQ 180* 'Flat' 12: Pistons move in same direction,sharing the same crankpin,like the V-12. https://youtu.be/j_g_K0nyGHQ?t=23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3CkVwtOPX4 The 911 motor is a 'Boxer',the 917's motor (912) is not. Because the length of the crank is greater with the boxer configuration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KdpzL3Hkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o8E4WCC4F8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) Need to know: http://www.pattakon.com/ http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonEduc.htm http://bestplay.pk/watch/V6PGO03K6cI Like the Merlin V12 engine above,the 180* flat engine has 6 crankpins,just like the Boxer Six. The crank is offset 3" to grind the 6" stroke crank,27L. / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZ9RD6BTMw http://www.e31.net/engines_e.html Technology Terminology,for to make communicate.Some,obviously,are not on the same page. Needing a part,called a part store,"Do you sell 'whatchyamacallits',for my motor thingy?". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) The reason for the forked 'Connecting Rod',is performance,the reduction of engine weight. The HD,and the RR,have their cylinders opposite each other,in the same plane.The greater complexity of manufacture was a calculated compromise. The weight of the crankshaft was reduced,as the secondary unbalance forces were nulled by the inline cylinders,less vibration. The shared crankpin of the 917 engine's side by side,'conrods',are the result,also,of a compromise in the cost of manufacture,and simplicity The proposal for such forked rods,in the initial design stages of the 917 engine,was rejected,as their mass was unsuitable for the high rpm engine. Two different applications,two different results,both of which excelled in their field. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...iston%20engines https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...connecting+rods http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antiq...-merlin-306661/ http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Scat-932911-...troke,3181.html https://rideapart.com/articles/birth-harley...on-v-twin-motor  RR Merlin crank.Forged,hollow,tubular and light.Sheffield. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/4...ine-Restoration http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gener...ankshaft-73615/  The finish anvil below,one of _. Looking to make a piston engine? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) So,yeah,a flat 180-12 engine can have the cylinders inline,the boxer's must be offset.The offset distance is the thickness of the web,rod and journal,if any. A method to circumvent the offset,with minimal complexity.:  /  Boxer Cranks  MercedesBenz auto V12  Bmw auto V12  Diamler Benz DB 605 V12 Crank  912 Shafts https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...+917+engine+fan  Twin Supra V12 crank,heavy man. So,you were thinking of a flat 12 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) / http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/cran...ght-crankshaft/ /  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) A passion for the 914,shared with others. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...ahn&tbm=vid http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...-flat-12-a.html http://gtspirit.com/2013/12/29/remarkable-...al-porsche-917/ 911+911=flat12! The freedom to do a build of your own,a personal vision,and version of your 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) / |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 17 2013, 06:56 PM
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#15
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,346 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None 
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| veekry9 |
Oct 17 2013, 07:27 PM
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#16
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Oct 17 2013, 08:56 PM) .. Pie in the sky ramblings of malarky.  After the Cosmic Rain The whatif of gearheads everywhere is what makes all of this wrenching so worthwhile. Certainly,few of us here are motivated only by $$reward.Rather,we support the specialists out there. They need the money,you need the 'stuff',  A MS Paint drawing from the '90s,to show the kids how to use the pc,called it 'Veloce'. / |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 21 2013, 07:23 PM
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#17
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4IR6Ukv7gk Isdera Eberhard Shulz. He started out as the Erator GTE builder and developed into a wonderful designer.I even like his first off. There's a youtube of it being thrashed through the black forest. A showcase of the builders dream realized.A successful talent in auto design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7dnobhDFI Midengined straight-6 or V8 sports type. Oh Yeah, Made the cover of Road+Track. Then Years later,tested at speed by Paul Frere, 176MPH=Stable,Tight.(Yes:176mph).As timed by R+T. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOeTKlCPOss / |
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| sixnotfour |
Oct 21 2013, 07:43 PM
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#18
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,681 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(veekry9 @ Oct 17 2013, 01:22 PM) So. I recently took possesion of two(2) 2.7L(164") Corvair engines. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I doubt it would be as simple as merely welding sawn cases together, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/smlove2.gif) then installing a custom crank and cam.Then the problem becomes the cylinder head. Metal joining technology has come a long way since '65. Look,if that guy out there in boonville norway can do it, what,if only money,is stopping us?(me) It is a matter of will. Luke,do or not do.(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Why on earth would you bother with a push rod engine ?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 21 2013, 07:49 PM
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#19
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,346 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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| veekry9 |
Oct 21 2013, 08:13 PM
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#20
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Oct 21 2013, 09:49 PM) Velly interestink. I presume the 'trunk'is in the middle,or perhaps the fuel tank has been relocated to the vacant engine bay. For lack of a better description a VW-914-T1-4.For those whose inclinations are bug-love.Does it work? Sure.  |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 22 2013, 06:10 PM
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#21
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
In the interest of keeping this a Porsche
relevant thd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-aAMr5kySg Conclusion:Porsche solved the vibes.Revs?Many questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpMGPUMyXE Mr Lind apparently had a Swedish Co. do his crank and cam. http://enem.se/ib.asp Anyone here source their parts from Sweden?   >on UAC [ Type 4 Unleashed Location: Aliso Viejo, CA M-Owen wrote: Did you ever get an answer from this site? Yes I did, and was signed up. Two guys built this motor, Julle & Lind, it had even been upgraded to a 4.6 ltr, they had upgraded to 101.6 mm P/C's. The motor is currently in a 914, and had been taken up to 167 mph and it still was pulling, but engine temps were climbing, so he slowed it down. This would be a wild project. ] Indeed,lessee...$/Lb.:Porsche-8 versus Lind-built T4-8 The idea Lind+Julle could run that 8 with a welded crank I think is doubtful. Having attracted worldwide attention,would they repeat the feat for a customer? |
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| Dave_Darling |
Oct 22 2013, 07:34 PM
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#22
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,063 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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How the heck do you fit that thing in a 914????
--DD |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 22 2013, 07:58 PM
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#23
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
The Question is how did he do it at all.
Likely every 3rd person who saw it under construction had doubts of success or even completion. Point Made. Heavier than air machines Can Fly!!  |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 22 2013, 09:41 PM
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#24
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,346 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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| Dr Evil |
Oct 22 2013, 09:55 PM
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#25
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Send me your transmission! Group: Members Posts: 23,034 Joined: 21-November 03 From: Loveland, OH 45140 Member No.: 1,372 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region
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That double T4-8 makes me so friggen moist (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)
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| veekry9 |
Oct 23 2013, 01:15 PM
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#26
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Oct 22 2013, 11:41 PM)  Post #66806 A 914/Cayenne for the Paris-Dakar Rally.With a 959 drivetrain.OohLaLa.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2thf2NwMYE Great idea. |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 23 2013, 08:38 PM
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#27
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
Laguna Seca
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsf8S3qgwX8 sounds good. A GT of Sicily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Albnb3xQdo a How To. |
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| sixnotfour |
Oct 24 2013, 06:44 PM
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#28
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,681 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(veekry9 @ Oct 23 2013, 07:38 PM) Laguna Seca https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsf8S3qgwX8 sounds good. A GT of Sicily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Albnb3xQdo a How To. Those are Not push rod engines ... |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 24 2013, 07:13 PM
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#29
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
Those are Not push rod engines ...
The Evolution of Design. A Flat 8 built today may actually be superior in every way. Definitely Expensive. Well,There is 1 Factory 914-8. (corr:2 actually,thanks Dave) Exclusive Territory. Hmmm...  Another part for your 908 powered 914. |
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| Dave_Darling |
Oct 24 2013, 09:27 PM
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#30
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,063 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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There are two of them, the silver one that was built for the Dr. for his birthday, and the orange one built for Piech.
There were rumors of a third one that was built after-hours a number of years later, but those are unconfirmed.... --DD |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 25 2013, 06:27 PM
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#31
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
I recalled an animation from a few yrs ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh7J8DSDZAg edit:this animation shows the crank in an interspersed configuration. a 4cyl crank in the middle,another split and joined at each end,hence the harmonics. The successful 908 crank is 2 4cyl cranks joined at 90* angle. http://www.jabiru.net.au/  Engine Features 4 Stroke 3300cc (200 cubic inches) 6 Cylinder Horizontally Opposed 1 Central Camshaft Fully Machined Aluminium Alloy Crankcase Over Head Valves (OHV) - Push Rod Operated Ram Air Cooled Wet Sump Lubrication - 4 litre capacity Direct Propeller Drive Dual Transistorised Magneto Ignition Integrated AC Generator Electric Starter Mechanical Fuel Pump Naturally Aspirated - 1 Pressure Compensating Carburetor This is the 5L -8 It is,at this date out of production.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabiru_5100 https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...8#q=jabiru+5100 The 8 sounds real good For those who aren't moneyshy,not cheap. High quality,aero-style. see more: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=250515 animation of types: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvpFcSPtDV0 nice work. |
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