 PIX, Pix Of Enlightenment |
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Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
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| SirAndy |
 Oct 15 2013, 08:00 PM
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#3
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Resident German  Group: Admin Posts: 41,944 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California  |
QUOTE(McMark @ Oct 15 2013, 06:43 PM)  More of the 8-cyl Type IV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif) |
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| boxsterfan |
Oct 15 2013, 08:19 PM
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#4
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914's are kewl Group: Members Posts: 1,776 Joined: 6-June 03 From: San Ramon, CA Member No.: 791 Region Association: Northern California |
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| carr914 |
Oct 15 2013, 08:23 PM
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#5
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Racer from Birth Group: Members Posts: 122,568 Joined: 2-February 04 From: Tampa,FL Member No.: 1,623 Region Association: South East States  |
QUOTE(McMark @ Oct 15 2013, 09:43 PM) More of the 8-cyl Type IV But why Carbs vs MFI or Slide-Valve Injection? |
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| McMark |
Oct 15 2013, 08:25 PM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Those aren't carbs. They're ITB fuel injection.
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| Chris H. |
Oct 15 2013, 08:29 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 4,049 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Chicago 'burbs Member No.: 73 Region Association: Upper MidWest 
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Mark you could turbo the sh!t out of that.
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| McMark |
Oct 15 2013, 08:31 PM
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#8
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 15 2013, 08:38 PM
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#9
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
What Lind accomplished hadn't been attempted here in North America.
No doubt the same vibration characteristics were present as Porsche's version. A masterpiece in ingenuity and fortitude to complete.He speaks Porsche very well. (Edit:08/18/16): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWeNPi2XkE http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2016/01/ko...ft-free-engine/ http://jalopnik.com/what-its-like-to-ride-...gine-1529865968 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Some kind of wonderful. Opens up a whole new life for piston engines,so very programmable. Kudos. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) / |
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| SirAndy |
Oct 16 2013, 01:37 AM
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#10
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,944 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(veekry9 @ Oct 15 2013, 07:38 PM) No doubt the same vibration characteristics were present as Porsche's version. Actually, if you do some reading, that is the very reason why Porsche went to a center driven cooling fan that ran off a 90 degree angle drive on their flat /8 racing engines. It is quite an eye opener to read about their vibration issues with the long crank and how they went about solving those issues. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
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| Dave_Darling |
Oct 16 2013, 09:58 AM
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#11
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,063 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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I thought the firing order thing was how they finally solved the vibration problems in the 908 motors?
Some of the 908s, at least, used an upright fan that is very similar to the standard 911 one. When they built the "912" engine (for the 917) they used a center take-off as the only option. The long crank twisted too much to have the take-off at the end. --DD |
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| bandjoey |
Oct 16 2013, 10:54 AM
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#12
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bandjoey Group: Members Posts: 4,930 Joined: 26-September 07 From: Bedford Tx Member No.: 8,156 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Donor Motor for the Limo? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| SirAndy |
Oct 16 2013, 11:19 AM
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#13
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,944 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Oct 16 2013, 08:58 AM) I thought the firing order thing was how they finally solved the vibration problems in the 908 motors? Some of the 908s, at least, used an upright fan that is very similar to the standard 911 one. I can't remember where i read that article, it was an interview with the guy who designed the 908 engine. Old Pano maybe??? It's a really interesting read ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 17 2013, 02:22 PM
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#14
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
So.
I recently took possession of two(2)2.7L(164") Corvair engines. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I doubt it would be as simple as merely welding sawn,machined cases together, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/smlove2.gif) then,installing a custom crank and cam.The problem then becomes the cylinder heads. Metal joining technology has come a long way since '65. Look,if that guy out there in boonville Norway(er..corr Sweden) can do it,what,if only money,is stopping us(me)? It is a matter of will.Luke,do or not do. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) / (edit:08/14/16): -------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------------------------------------------  http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/boxer-engi...-8-project.html Hmmm..Seems the flat eight affliction is not confined to Porsche enthusiasts,it's catching. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) / (Edit:08/17/16): The context,an answer to a question posed to 'engine dorks' about crankenrods.  HD You could use a knife and fork rod set,the pistons in line,radially. The advantage of the 'boxer' design is the cancelling of the primary unbalance forces. Pointers: https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...a%20boxer%20six https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...boxer+animation https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...nd%20g%20forces The crankshaft is connected to the wristpin by the,'connecting rod',holding the piston,with the piston,or 'wrist' pin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-KSsaH-3b0 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Dorks,and Boffins,working at Porsche,MercedesBenz,Ferrari,and other manufacturers,for centuries. You can join them here,bring a slide rule. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...+degree+florida 11,768 m/s² 1200Gs - Deceleration of a woodpecker's head! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) / 'Boxer': Pistons move in opposite directions,a crankpin for each piston. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_g_K0nyGHQ 180* 'Flat' 12: Pistons move in same direction,sharing the same crankpin,like the V-12. https://youtu.be/j_g_K0nyGHQ?t=23 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3CkVwtOPX4 The 911 motor is a 'Boxer',the 917's motor (912) is not. Because the length of the crank is greater with the boxer configuration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KdpzL3Hkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o8E4WCC4F8 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) Need to know: http://www.pattakon.com/ http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonEduc.htm http://bestplay.pk/watch/V6PGO03K6cI Like the Merlin V12 engine above,the 180* flat engine has 6 crankpins,just like the Boxer Six. The crank is offset 3" to grind the 6" stroke crank,27L. / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbZ9RD6BTMw http://www.e31.net/engines_e.html Technology Terminology,for to make communicate.Some,obviously,are not on the same page. Needing a part,called a part store,"Do you sell 'whatchyamacallits',for my motor thingy?". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) The reason for the forked 'Connecting Rod',is performance,the reduction of engine weight. The HD,and the RR,have their cylinders opposite each other,in the same plane.The greater complexity of manufacture was a calculated compromise. The weight of the crankshaft was reduced,as the secondary unbalance forces were nulled by the inline cylinders,less vibration. The shared crankpin of the 917 engine's side by side,'conrods',are the result,also,of a compromise in the cost of manufacture,and simplicity The proposal for such forked rods,in the initial design stages of the 917 engine,was rejected,as their mass was unsuitable for the high rpm engine. Two different applications,two different results,both of which excelled in their field. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...iston%20engines https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...connecting+rods http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antiq...-merlin-306661/ http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Scat-932911-...troke,3181.html https://rideapart.com/articles/birth-harley...on-v-twin-motor  RR Merlin crank.Forged,hollow,tubular and light.Sheffield. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/4...ine-Restoration http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gener...ankshaft-73615/  The finish anvil below,one of _. Looking to make a piston engine? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) So,yeah,a flat 180-12 engine can have the cylinders inline,the boxer's must be offset.The offset distance is the thickness of the web,rod and journal,if any. A method to circumvent the offset,with minimal complexity.:  /  Boxer Cranks  MercedesBenz auto V12  Bmw auto V12  Diamler Benz DB 605 V12 Crank  912 Shafts https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...+917+engine+fan  Twin Supra V12 crank,heavy man. So,you were thinking of a flat 12 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) / http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/cran...ght-crankshaft/ /  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) A passion for the 914,shared with others. https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome...ahn&tbm=vid http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...-flat-12-a.html http://gtspirit.com/2013/12/29/remarkable-...al-porsche-917/ 911+911=flat12! The freedom to do a build of your own,a personal vision,and version of your 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) / |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 17 2013, 06:56 PM
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#15
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,346 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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| veekry9 |
Oct 17 2013, 07:27 PM
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#16
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Oct 17 2013, 08:56 PM) .. Pie in the sky ramblings of malarky.  After the Cosmic Rain The whatif of gearheads everywhere is what makes all of this wrenching so worthwhile. Certainly,few of us here are motivated only by $$reward.Rather,we support the specialists out there. They need the money,you need the 'stuff',  A MS Paint drawing from the '90s,to show the kids how to use the pc,called it 'Veloce'. / |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 21 2013, 07:23 PM
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#17
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4IR6Ukv7gk Isdera Eberhard Shulz. He started out as the Erator GTE builder and developed into a wonderful designer.I even like his first off. There's a youtube of it being thrashed through the black forest. A showcase of the builders dream realized.A successful talent in auto design. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7dnobhDFI Midengined straight-6 or V8 sports type. Oh Yeah, Made the cover of Road+Track. Then Years later,tested at speed by Paul Frere, 176MPH=Stable,Tight.(Yes:176mph).As timed by R+T. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOeTKlCPOss / |
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| sixnotfour |
Oct 21 2013, 07:43 PM
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#18
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,681 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains
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QUOTE(veekry9 @ Oct 17 2013, 01:22 PM) So. I recently took possesion of two(2) 2.7L(164") Corvair engines. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I doubt it would be as simple as merely welding sawn cases together, (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/smlove2.gif) then installing a custom crank and cam.Then the problem becomes the cylinder head. Metal joining technology has come a long way since '65. Look,if that guy out there in boonville norway can do it, what,if only money,is stopping us?(me) It is a matter of will. Luke,do or not do.(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Why on earth would you bother with a push rod engine ?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| Mike Bellis |
Oct 21 2013, 07:49 PM
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#19
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Resident Electrician Group: Members Posts: 8,346 Joined: 22-June 09 From: Midlothian TX Member No.: 10,496 Region Association: None
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| veekry9 |
Oct 21 2013, 08:13 PM
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#20
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(kg6dxn @ Oct 21 2013, 09:49 PM) Velly interestink. I presume the 'trunk'is in the middle,or perhaps the fuel tank has been relocated to the vacant engine bay. For lack of a better description a VW-914-T1-4.For those whose inclinations are bug-love.Does it work? Sure.  |
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| veekry9 |
Oct 22 2013, 06:10 PM
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#21
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OldMember Group: Retired Members Posts: 3,068 Joined: 17-June 13 From: TO Member No.: 16,025 Region Association: Canada |
In the interest of keeping this a Porsche
relevant thd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-aAMr5kySg Conclusion:Porsche solved the vibes.Revs?Many questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpMGPUMyXE Mr Lind apparently had a Swedish Co. do his crank and cam. http://enem.se/ib.asp Anyone here source their parts from Sweden?   >on UAC [ Type 4 Unleashed Location: Aliso Viejo, CA M-Owen wrote: Did you ever get an answer from this site? Yes I did, and was signed up. Two guys built this motor, Julle & Lind, it had even been upgraded to a 4.6 ltr, they had upgraded to 101.6 mm P/C's. The motor is currently in a 914, and had been taken up to 167 mph and it still was pulling, but engine temps were climbing, so he slowed it down. This would be a wild project. ] Indeed,lessee...$/Lb.:Porsche-8 versus Lind-built T4-8 The idea Lind+Julle could run that 8 with a welded crank I think is doubtful. Having attracted worldwide attention,would they repeat the feat for a customer? |
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| Dave_Darling |
Oct 22 2013, 07:34 PM
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#22
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 15,063 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California
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How the heck do you fit that thing in a 914????
--DD |
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