Projects on my new, to me. 1974 914-6 Options

[jerhofer]

Still have a whole lot of clunking going on! The other starter gave the same results. I was able to get a wrench on the crank pulley. Before trying to rotate the engine, I decided to pull all of the spark plugs to make it easier. I couldn't get excellent leverage on that wrench but I had enough that the engine should rotate if it were free. It didn't budge a bit.

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At this point I decided that the transmission needed to come completely out as I had a serious clutch problem. So off came the axles and, since I have had so much practice this week, soon it was resting on the transmission jack.

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I dug out the pry bar and could easily rotate the motor via the ring gear. A call to Kennedy Engineering soon followed. I talked to Brett, the general manager, who is also their Porsche expert. After explaining the issue, has asked me to send him photos of the flywheel, the pressure plate, and the tranny. Photos is one thing I have in abundance!!

I also sent him photos of a number of measurements that I took with my calipers. After reviewing the photos, he wants me to remove the pressure plate and clutch, put the transmission back in place and then see if the motor will rotate. If it does, that eliminates the flywheel. If it does rotate, he want me to measure from the bolt up surface of the starter pocket down to the top of the ring gear. It should be around 1.43". So I get to put it together again.

[jerhofer]

Another frustrating day. I removed the pressure plate and clutch as advised by Brett at Kennedy.

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As any of you know who have a 911 engine in your 914, getting to the crank pulley bolt is difficult. Once I got the 19mm wrench on the bolt, I wedged a small board in between the wrench and the tin to hold it in place. Since the wrench is short, to increase leverage, I used a box end wrench over the open end of the wrench. I climbed into the trunk and was able to get a good pull on it but the motor did not budge, even with the plugs out. I had the plugs in when I did the valve adjustment and the effort wasn't terrible, albeit with a longer wrench. With the plugs out, it should have moved.


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I called Brett at Kennedy to let him know what had happened. He wanted photos. I got out my inspection camera. It has a feature I had never used. You can take photos or videos with it. I snapped a bunch of photos and sent them to Brett.

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After looking at the photos, he could not see a clearance issue. He then asked me to measure the depth from the ring gear to the surface where the starter is mounted. It should be exactly 1.43" Since I did not have a lot of room to get a ruler in that hole and be able to read it, I took a piece of dowel and marked 1.43" on it. I then stuck the dowel into the hole. That mark came out exactly to the surface so the ring gear was in the correct position. This also means the crank is in the correct position. He has seen the crank protrude a bit causing everything else to be off.

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Now we are wondering if the outside of the ring gear is hitting the transmission housing anywhere. The most likely places are the bosses at the bolt holes. Brett recommended placing clay at these positions and then see if they are disturbed when the transmission is in place. I didn't have any clay but I did have some strip putty. I placed it in these areas, slid the transmission in place and none of them were disturbed.

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He then asked if the transmission shaft was bottoming out in the flywheel. I had taken a photo earlier of that area and it was apparent that it was not bottoming out. In fact I asked Brett if he thought it was engaged enough. He asked if it extended fully into the pilot bearing. With the transmission out, I could see a grease mark on the shaft. I measured that and it did extend fully into the pilot bearing.

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At this point, Brett can't understand why it is locking up. He said that, in the past they did have some issues with the backside of the flywheel hitting the bosses on the engine block. But since the flywheel turns freely with a pry bar when the transmission is not in place, that ruled out that issue. The last conversation we had was for me to remove the flywheel and see if anything does show up on the rear of it. He also said that if I sent the flywheel to him, he would check to make sure it in spec.

At this point, one thing I had not done was try the starter with no clutch in place. CLUNK!!

I had sent my son a link to this thread beginning last week to show him how much fun I was having. His response was to be thankful I had a furnace and a lift!!

I called him this evening to discuss this. He is coming over in the morning. He is a better troubleshooter than me and, at this point, another set of eyes can't hurt.

I can't imagine that it could be the solution, but I am going to look at the early photos I took of the engine with the wiring harness in place to see if I am missing a hookup somewhere that is causing some issue. As I was doing the original wiring, I could only see a 12v lead from the alternator, the power lead from the battery, and a yellow wire that I have been putting on one of the spades on the starter. Am I missing something?

Very frustrating week!!!

[jerhofer]

Here are the photos I found of the wiring harness on the engine as it was when I first got it.

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[pete000]

Have you tried bypassing the cars electrical system altogether and just use a jumper cable and an extra battery on the starter to verify it still just clunks?

This would eliminate your possible wiring concerns.

I made a mistake once and forgot to hook up the main power to the starter once and it just went Clunk but would not spin, just as you describe.

[rick 918-S]

Unless you have already done this: Try the Ed test: take a positive jumper cable from the battery to the battery post on the starter, then the negative cable from the battery directly to a bolt near the starter and try to crank the engine.

I had a stock positive cable that looked like new that was corroded inside the sheathing causing the same issue. I chased it for months. Push started the car more than I care to admit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) Worth a try. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Cairo94507]

Oh man....what an experience to go through. I hope your son spots the issue and it is easily corrected after all of the investigative work you have gone through. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[jerhofer]

The first thing my son and I did was to use jumper cables from his car ( he drove his 700hp LS turbo motor 1979 El Camino) directly to the starter. CLUNK!! He said there were big sparks when I turned the ignition to start!!

Matt tried to turn the motor on the crank pulley and could not get it to move. But I could use the pry bar and make the motor rotate. However, Matt thought it did not move as freely as it should. So we removed the flywheel. A sign of what we would find was indicated by the fact that we did not have to use a flywheel lock to loosen the flywheel bolts.

We could see immediately see where the flywheel was hitting the lower boss on the engine block. We ground away some of the affected boss as well as the upper boss and put it back together. We could rotate the motor by hand by rotating the flywheel with our hands. Matt wanted to get back to working on his car, so, after he left, I mounted the transmission to the engine and installed the starter. I climbed into the cockpit, turned the key and the engine cranked HURRAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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I spent the rest of the afternoon mounting the transmission and installing the axles. I need to hook up all the cables, the shifter, re-install the spark plugs, etc. Once I have all that in place, I can troubleshoot the TPS issue. Hopefully, I will be starting the engine next week. Sure feels good to have found the problem. Thanks to all for your suggestions.

[pete000]

So was the flywheel too thick causing the touch condition?

[pete000]

So was the flywheel too thick causing the touch condition?

[jerhofer]

So was the flywheel too thick causing the touch condition?

I don't know. It is an aftermarket part made for many different iterations of a 911 engine. Evidently they had an issue with some of these flywheels. I let Brett know what i had found.

[Cairo94507]

I am glad to hear you figured this out and resolved it. I can't wait to see a clip of your engine running. Good job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[ge9146]

Congratulations on your great detective work!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

What a pain in the flywheel. It was supposed to fit.

Looking forward to hearing about the start up.

Ed

[Tdskip]

Press on!

[jerhofer]

Since I was working on the car Friday and Saturday, my wife and I cleaned the house Sunday morning. After lunch, since it was such a beautiful day (sunny and low 60's), I decided to get the motorhome out of storage and begin loading it for our trip to Florida in a few weeks.

Yesterday morning, I received a message from my son asking if he could borrow some of our electrons for his 911 Tesla. He was heading our way and on over to a friend of mine, Tim, who has a body shop. Tim is going to be painting Matt's car. Since the car has had so little time on the road, Matt is being overly cautious on the range of the car. He has his Tesla charger now so it charges quite bit faster. I have a 220V plug in my garage that he used.

After about fifteen minutes of charging, we drove over to Tim's place. There was talk about how they were going to handle different things on the car. The plan is for Matt to take the car apart in January in preparation for Tim painting in in February. While we were there, he gave Tim a ride. Tim has a Vega drag car that does 6.3 in an eighth mile. So he is used to acceleration G's. But it is an all out race car. He was amazed at how the car laid him back in the seat. And soon it will be faster. Matt is planning on driving it to a Tesla tuner in HIckory, NC Tuesday to get an additional 50HP for a total of 500. For an extra $2,000 he could add 200 more HP.

I drove the car back to my house. It still drives like a 911 so it was very familiar. Once back out our house, Matt plugged in again. Once I got the clutch and throttle cables hooked up, Matt jumped into the car to press the pedals so I could do the adjusting under the car. We also re-installed the spark plugs.

Again, because of the complexity of the car, he was checking on the charging process continually. On one of those inspections, he saw that the charger had shut down. He had blown a 30 amp breaker. The draw is 50 amp and he assumed I had a 50 amp breaker on that line. To be able to continue charging, he adjusted the charger on the car so it would only draw 30 amp.

I had mentioned to Matt that the TPS wasn't alive on the car. Years ago Matt built a fuel injection system from scratch for his '69 Camaro. He sold this car this year to fund the Tesla project. He worked for Michelin for 12 years designing race tires. Michelin sent him to France for three years so he could learn the "Michelin Way". While he was over there, I stored his Camaro in my garage. He called me one day to ask if I would take some measurements under the hood.

He had bought a Hilborn intake manifold on eBay which he had shipped me. He was going to use motorcycle fuel injectors and other parts he scrounged to make this system. Part of the system was an air box he was going to make out of carbon fiber. He also made the intake horns from carbon fiber as well. He needed the under hood measurements and measurements of the intake to figure out the dimension fo the air box. After measuring the manifold I shipped it to a Michelin colleague who was going to France soon and would take the manifold with him in his suitcase. When Matt arrived back in the states with the air box, he only had to make one small cut to one the hood braces for clearance.


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Matt used an Electrtomotive's TEC ECU so he was familiar with the wiring. You can see it in this photo positioned on the hump.

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It didn't take long for him to discover that I had voltage going to all of the black/white wires that were sensor grounds. Somewhere I have a black/white wire touching a gray/red wire. I had some other questions for Richard Clewett and he suggested that I unhook the plug for each sensor one at a time and then see when the voltage disappears. That will at least give me a general area to look. When I unhooked the cam sensor plug, the voltage dropped from 3.73 to .50. I had a doctor's appointment this afternoon so that search will have to wait until tomorrow.

[porschetub]

The first thing my son and I did was to use jumper cables from his car ( he drove his 700hp LS turbo motor 1979 El Camino) directly to the starter. CLUNK!! He said there were big sparks when I turned the ignition to start!!

Matt tried to turn the motor on the crank pulley and could not get it to move. But I could use the pry bar and make the motor rotate. However, Matt thought it did not move as freely as it should. So we removed the flywheel. A sign of what we would find was indicated by the fact that we did not have to use a flywheel lock to loosen the flywheel bolts.

We could see immediately see where the flywheel was hitting the lower boss on the engine block. We ground away some of the affected boss as well as the upper boss and put it back together. We could rotate the motor by hand by rotating the flywheel with our hands. Matt wanted to get back to working on his car, so, after he left, I mounted the transmission to the engine and installed the starter. I climbed into the cockpit, turned the key and the engine cranked HURRAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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Is that sealer on the crank and flywheel mating faces,not seen that done before,I wouldn't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .
Certainly an clearance issue they need to address as yours won't be the only motor it will happen to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .

[raynekat]

Loving the Camaro....have a soft spot for that 1st Gen. Want a 69 one day.

[jerhofer]

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[/quote]

Is that sealer on the crank and flywheel mating faces,not seen that done before,I wouldn't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .
Certainly an clearance issue they need to address as yours won't be the only motor it will happen to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) .
[/quote]

It is just residue from the grease and the red loctite. I cleaned that up before installing the clutch.

Kennedy had let me know that they had occasionally had this issue. The flywheel was purchased back in 2012 so I would assume they have corrected it by now.

Well I found a few things today electrically. I checked the TPS wiring and discovered that I had reversed two wires. However, it is still not responding like it should. Richard suggested I remove it and see if it is mechanically working correctly.

As for my problem of having voltage on the Black/White sensor ground wires, when I removed the sensor plugs, the voltage would drop some with each removal. But it never went to zero. I called my son seeking advice. He said he thought the issue was a grounding problem on the ECU. I had run the ground wire from the ECU plug and one from the power wiring harness directly to the battery. Matt suggested running a wire from the block to the black/white wires. I did that and the voltage went away.

Thinking that the battery was not getting a good enough ground, I ran a battery ground wire directly from the battery to the block. That did not help. I put a call into Richard and, after explaining what I had done, he recommended doing a continuity check from the black white wire to each wire in the harness. I had soldered about six black/white wires together from the various sensors and had that connection exposed.

I put my negative lead there and tried the plug for the black/white wire first as it also had the gray/red wire that was a 5V lead. As I was going from pin to pin in the plug I was surprised to find that I did not have continuity on the black/white wire. That lump of black/white wires was only two inches away so the reading should have gone to zero. I found my terminal removal tool, inserted it into the plug and pulled the black/white wire to remove it. The wire pulled out without the terminal. I evidently did a bad crimp on that terminal. I crimped on a new terminal, fired everything up and I had no voltage on the black/white wire. Happiness ensued!!

Tomorrow I will remove that TPS sensor to see what it going on with it. Once I get that resolved, I need to put the wiring harness back together and make sure everything is working correctly.

[porschetub]

ok that's fine,a wee lick of Loctite on the bolts is ok as its very common practice these days on more modern cars.
Hope you get your EFI issues sorted sounds like you are in good hands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) .

[JmuRiz]

WOAH, that Camaro intake is sweeeeet!

[jerhofer]

First thing this morning, I removed the TPS sensor and it appears to be operating correctly. After yesterday's continuity issue, I decided to do the same test on the TPS wiring. As I was pulling my plug from the ECU to the engine bay apart, the blue wire for the TPS pulled out of the plug.

That was the tipping point for me. I have never felt comfortable with having connectors between the ECU and the engine. My original reasoning for wiring it with connectors was for ease of removal of the engine. Unhook the connectors and have the wiring harness remain on the motor. I also did this because I thought access to the engine would be limited once the engine was in the car. Had I known how much access there is once the rear trunk lid is removed, I would have wired everything with the engine in the car. Also, it is easy to unplug the FI connectors from the engine.

So today I cut off all of those plugs and began wiring it direct. In all of my years of working on electrical wiring, I have always felt most comfortable when I am soldering connections. While I have had crimps fail (as in two plugs here in two days), I have never had a soldered connection fail. I know there are those who worry about making the wires more brittle when soldering, but, as I said, I have never had a solder connection fail. I have most of the wires connected but I personally ran out of gas around 3:00. I will finish it up in the morning and see if everything checks out.

I don't know what Richard's schedule is for the holidays. I may or may not get the car started before I leave for Florida. Hopefully I will be calling him tomorrow to start the car.