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> Wont start, struggling
ericoneal
post Nov 26 2018, 07:56 AM
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I took my engine out (dual carburetors) awhile back to put in a new clutch. Reinstalled the engine and now it wont start unless I pump the accelerator pedal like crazy. Also, the tach is not working which seems to indicate maybe a coil problem?

I am getting plenty of fuel in the carbs and a spark on all for plug wires. I tried also rotating the distributor slightly each way to check that maybe it was a timing issue, but that did nothing.

Like I said, the car starts if I pump the gas pedal, but will not stay running if I do not.
Stumped. Any ideas guys? I'm sure its something simple, this thing ran great before...

Anything else to try would be helpful. THanks

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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Nov 26 2018, 09:19 AM
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check the dwell angle and make sure it is good at 50. Also check the leads to the coil, green and black with purple on the 1 or negative side, and black on the positive or 15 side. After that check the fuel pump to make sure that it is delivering fuel by removing a the hose where it comes up into the engine bay and putting it into a bottle and turn the key on to start the pump running. It should deliver a steady stream.

You can also statically set the timing to get it close to where it should be by putting the car on number one top dead center on a compression stroke and the zero mark on the fan. Then put a test light on the negative side of the coil and move both ways a bit to where the light turns and then just turns off. When it just turns off that should be timing on zero degrees, good enough to start the engine. Beyond that you could have a carb problem where maybe after sitting the floats are sticking


QUOTE(ericoneal @ Nov 26 2018, 06:56 AM) *

I took my engine out (dual carburetors) awhile back to put in a new clutch. Reinstalled the engine and now it wont start unless I pump the accelerator pedal like crazy. Also, the tach is not working which seems to indicate maybe a coil problem?

I am getting plenty of fuel in the carbs and a spark on all for plug wires. I tried also rotating the distributor slightly each way to check that maybe it was a timing issue, but that did nothing.

Like I said, the car starts if I pump the gas pedal, but will not stay running if I do not.
Stumped. Any ideas guys? I'm sure its something simple, this thing ran great before...

Anything else to try would be helpful. THanks
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ericoneal
post Nov 26 2018, 10:29 AM
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Pretty sure the coil is wired correctly, I took pictures before I unhooked it, odd that the tach is no longer working though..
Fuel pump is running and fuel is squirting into carbs, will check to be sure its steady tonight. Also checked to be sure rotor was pointing are plug 1 when at TDC on fan. Test light is good idea, will check that as well.
Will Google sticky floats.

Thanks

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Nov 26 2018, 10:19 AM) *

check the dwell angle and make sure it is good at 50. Also check the leads to the coil, green and black with purple on the 1 or negative side, and black on the positive or 15 side. After that check the fuel pump to make sure that it is delivering fuel by removing a the hose where it comes up into the engine bay and putting it into a bottle and turn the key on to start the pump running. It should deliver a steady stream.

You can also statically set the timing to get it close to where it should be by putting the car on number one top dead center on a compression stroke and the zero mark on the fan. Then put a test light on the negative side of the coil and move both ways a bit to where the light turns and then just turns off. When it just turns off that should be timing on zero degrees, good enough to start the engine. Beyond that you could have a carb problem where maybe after sitting the floats are sticking


QUOTE(ericoneal @ Nov 26 2018, 06:56 AM) *

I took my engine out (dual carburetors) awhile back to put in a new clutch. Reinstalled the engine and now it wont start unless I pump the accelerator pedal like crazy. Also, the tach is not working which seems to indicate maybe a coil problem?

I am getting plenty of fuel in the carbs and a spark on all for plug wires. I tried also rotating the distributor slightly each way to check that maybe it was a timing issue, but that did nothing.

Like I said, the car starts if I pump the gas pedal, but will not stay running if I do not.
Stumped. Any ideas guys? I'm sure its something simple, this thing ran great before...

Anything else to try would be helpful. THanks


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Mblizzard
post Nov 26 2018, 12:08 PM
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Because the Tach draws its signal from the coil, I have to think there is a problem in the way you put the wires back on the coil.
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Tdskip
post Nov 26 2018, 12:16 PM
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If you didn't move the distributor when the engine was out - and it ran fine before - leave it and focus on the wiring connections. Don't think the timing would change by itself.... One thing at a time!

Before moving on to anything else you may want to see if it will run well on ether.

EDIT - if the wiring is OK and it runs on ether then it might be floats / fuel level.

Keep us posted.
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IronHillRestorations
post Nov 26 2018, 01:52 PM
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Spark, air, fuel, compression. It's one of those.

Start with making sure your ignition is working right; timing (including dwell), firing order is correct, and make sure your all other ignition components are good. I have a spark tester where you can see the spark, and adjust the air gap to make sure you're getting a hot enough spark.

I'd pull your points and make sure they are good. Look at the distributor cap and make sure the center contact hasn't come out. Check the resistance of your coil. Replace the condenser if it's suspect at all.

Make sure your plugs aren't fouled and the correct heat range for a carb'd engine.

Make sure you are getting enough fuel. I personally have bent a rubber fuel hose enough to restrict fuel flow to cause a problem. Some fuel hose is more susceptible to this. I personally haven't used propane, but I've been told you can blow propane down the carb throats enough to get an engine to run.

I've put gas in a mist bottle and sprayed it in the carbs (using protective leather jacket and gloves) but I'd consider it a risky move if you aren't set up to do it (adult help, fire extinguisher, etc).
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ericoneal
post Nov 26 2018, 08:11 PM
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Still no luck, here is what I did:

1. I checked the fuel lines to both carbs, plenty of gas from the fuel pump.
2. put new connectors on wires to the coil, double checked they were wired correctly. Tach works now.
3. Set TDC to be sure rotor was pointing at mark on distributes (plug 1)
4. Checked connections on the relay board.
5. INspected distributor cap, all looked fine.
6. Checked for kinks in the fuel line
7. Checked firing order.
8. Checked for spark by connecting strobe to wires to see flash, did not check spark at plugs. Did do this when I was having issues a couple months ago and they were fine.
9. Points were also checked at that time and were fine.

I made a video of what is happening, maybe it will be obvious to one of you. Note crazy legs on the gas pedal just to keep it running.

POS 914 Sputtering Video



I really dont want to have this thing towed...

Thanks

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Tdskip
post Nov 26 2018, 10:09 PM
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That sounds like a P-51 Merlin warming up.

Seems like a fuel issue to me ( May well be wrong, make sure to get lots of other opinions)

Have you clean the carbs yet? I wonder if they got gunked up while they were sitting?

How long were they off the car?
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second wind
post Nov 26 2018, 11:13 PM
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I lost three months of run time with my car due to bad coil.....plugs would spark but not under compression.....worth a try to change coil....my two cents....
gg
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Mblizzard
post Nov 27 2018, 08:03 AM
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I have o say its fuel as well.

Do the standard spray starting fluid in carbs to see if it runs.

If it does run then check fuel pressure if it is low look for kinked line. next start the process of cleaning out the carbs.
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ericoneal
post Nov 27 2018, 08:36 AM
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I sprayed fluid in the carbs and it fires up easier, but still runs like the same, like crap...
Is there details or a walk through somewhere for cleaning these things? Do I need to tear them down, or can I just shoot some carb cleaner on them?
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rhodyguy
post Nov 27 2018, 08:52 AM
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Is it possible to maintain 2.7-3k rpm with a steady, not pumping, gas peddle? Points or A.M. Spark module?
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mobymutt
post Nov 27 2018, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE(ericoneal @ Nov 27 2018, 09:36 AM) *

I sprayed fluid in the carbs and it fires up easier, but still runs like the same, like crap...
Is there details or a walk through somewhere for cleaning these things? Do I need to tear them down, or can I just shoot some carb cleaner on them?


I also vote for gummed up carbs. When you press the accelerator like that, don't the carbs pump in extra fuel via a different circuit of some sort?

There are tonnes of videos on YouTube, see if you can find one you like. Here's a random link I found:

https://the-bug-club.webs.com/cleaningwebber44jets.htm

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IronHillRestorations
post Nov 27 2018, 09:50 AM
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How long did it sit? My guess is the fuel that was left in the carb float bowls evaporated down and has gummed them up.

Based on reading your replies, I'd start by pulling all the jets and soaking them in carb cleaner. That said, the best thing would be to pull the carbs, disassemble, clean/soak, put in a new gasket kit, put them back on the car.

I'd change the fuel filter too, regardless.
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ericoneal
post Nov 27 2018, 11:54 AM
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Sent the video to a local guy here who is very good and he also suspects the carbs, in particular the linkage, and whether it may be out of adjustment.
I have VERY good reason to think that the linkage was mucked with egregiously when I pulled the engine out.
What say you guys? Are these the symptoms of a badly adjusted dual carb linkage?

I double and triple checked all of the wires and I'm pretty sure my electrical connections are good and its getting plenty of fuel form the pump.
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Mblizzard
post Nov 27 2018, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE(ericoneal @ Nov 27 2018, 09:54 AM) *

Sent the video to a local guy here who is very good and he also suspects the carbs, in particular the linkage, and whether it may be out of adjustment.
I have VERY good reason to think that the linkage was mucked with egregiously when I pulled the engine out.
What say you guys? Are these the symptoms of a badly adjusted dual carb linkage?

I double and triple checked all of the wires and I'm pretty sure my electrical connections are good and its getting plenty of fuel form the pump.


Well the linkage would have to be seriously screwed to produce those results so it is possible. What type of linkage do you have?
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ericoneal
post Nov 27 2018, 12:20 PM
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Its a single hexbar between the two. Pretty sure it seriously screwed. At least im hoping its as bad as I think
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Tdskip
post Nov 27 2018, 12:26 PM
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You should be able to disconnect the bar and set each carb to idle and fire it up.

I'd try than and report back.

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Mblizzard
post Nov 27 2018, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE(Tdskip @ Nov 27 2018, 10:26 AM) *

You should be able to disconnect the bar and set each carb to idle and fire it up.

I'd try than and report back.



If this works seriously look into the CSP bell crank linkage. Some people have good luck with hex bar set ups but I have never been able to get them to stay set. Likely operator error I know!
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TheCabinetmaker
post Nov 28 2018, 11:55 AM
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Sounds like the engine is fighting itself to run from being out of time. Fried condenser might cause that too, but it sounds ignition to me!
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